Not having great sucess...military locks.

[Recluse]

Ok so having my job is pretty relaxed so i can practice picking about anytime i dont have something to do. It isnt going to last very long my military orders are up in a few months.

Anyways my leadership that i above me, really almost encourage me to keep finding ways into locks. here are a lot of left keys at home and i dont know where they are right now. And if i can get a padlock open before they find a bolt cutter or a door open that some one locked the keys in the room and saves embarassment. so if there is a way to bypass it or pick it i try atleast. and i have permission to practice on the locks that i do practice on, not doing it in the shadows.

this is a list of locks that i come across everyday and have an abundance of them to practice on. So ill list them and what i cant get open which is alot of them.

1. Master Lock DG---i dont know if there is a model other then it being DG but there are a 8 rivet short shackle and a 4 rivet long shackle. both use the same key, they are both gold in color and US stamped, but i have about a 60% sucess rate with these. the cylider seems to move alot (sloppy). and the ones that i cant get open the first pin doesnt want to set and i assume one other but even playing with it for hours changing tension from extremly light and to heavier. and picking the pins in multiple orders, no luck. i dont see why the ones that i can get open i can do repeatily over and over no problem but others not a chance.

2American 5200 i love these locks i find them all over cut and sometimes they kill a bolt cutter, but again i have yet to defeat one of these, i think once that i can get a few of them picked really paying attension to what i am doing i would get the hang of it but i took one apart and 8/10 pins are serated and the other 2 are barbells. so it kicks my butt all day long.

3.Best 7-pin(dont know model but key is A1114TB) I dont know what is in these locks i should find a exploded veiw some where but ther are lots of pins and the lock is a mystery to me. really deep key hole.

and occationally i run into a small eagle there isnt much stamped on them but eagle and they have a very small 5 pin keyway , cut very very shallow, that i dont think i have the right kind to picks for them. and there are a few Medeco bi-axels. which i dont even know where to start

Any experience with any of these, any knowledge whatso ever would be appreciated. i Dont do destructive entry and dont plan on starting. thanks

~~Recluse~~

[darklighterz7611]

i dont see why the ones that i can get open i can do repeatily over and over no problem but others not a chance.

You gotta remember that every lock has minute imperfections which allow the lock to be picked, in that sense every lock is different. This, driver/key pin set-up, wear and tare can create some easy and difficult picking experiences in the same brand and model.

There is a post on here about the master DG somewhere and i think it said the main problems with picking is the sloppy plug and problems with applying tension. Maybe having a search for that could help you.

Is it always the first pin on these locks you cant get open?? Is this pin binding, springy, or unmovable? Any wrench feedback while manipulating this pin? Is the wrench touching the pin?

Having a look at the key might help as you can and find out how high or low it needs to be moved so you can tell if its overset or whatnot. apart from that just keep at it

p.s. ive heard some very light raking before spp on these locks works well if you just want it open and not the spp challenge.

[tjweaver84]

Tensioning is the hard part. For the Master DG I have found that top tension is the easiest and most effective tensioning method due to the shape of the keyway. I use a wrench with serrated edges and it barely goes into the lock since the first pin is nearer the front than a lot of other locks. I have taken a few of these locks apart and none have had any sort of security pins but they do tend to be master keyed and the general sloppiness of the locks may make you think the master pins are spools. When you get used to the feel of them you will find they are pretty easy to open.

[raimundo]

The master DG is a laminated padlock and the bottom lamination holds the little brass cylinder in,
when you use bottom tension the edge of the tensor can become grounded against this bottom lamination, If you look at your tensor, you may find that it is roughed up at the place where it contacts this lamination, the cutbreak edge of the punchpressed lamination is very rough. perhaps if you wrap this area of the tensor with some electricians tape, it will be more likely to slip rather than grab at the tensor,
the same may be true of the drill breaker cap on the end of the american brand padlocks,
search femurats posts for a photo of a top tensor made from a bicycle spoke, you can make these very easily and you can make a number of them for different fits at the top of the keyway,
remember the top tension type of tensor should not impinge on the first pin in the lock, it must be shorter than the distance to reach this pin.

[shipleyreno21]

I'm also a military man, and i've seen a lot of these locks around. the first 5200 series lock i picked took me almost two hours. I would try and fail, come back to it, try and fail, ect. Anyway, you're right. After you open a few of them you get a feel for them. I've found that alternating tension is pretty affective, and hope for a false set(when a serrated or spool pin is stuck on shear line. the whole plug will move to about one o'clock). Once you have a false set, maintain light tension and push up on each pin. What you will find is that none of the pins will move except one, and when you push up on that one, the plug will try to go back to the twelve o'clock position again. At that point i increase tension and force the pin up. It almost always opens.
I'm sure you've seen all of these locks cut and left on the ground to rust and get filled with dirt. I take them home, open them, and buy a new shackle for only 3 dollars a piece. You can use the holes on the bottom of the cylinder to repin the lock without removing the springs and top pins, and got a good lock for only 3 dollars. Now i own about 50 of them!

[dmux]

I have always had a good record opening the Master DG's. I would always find them in the motorpool because people would always lose the keys to the connex's. I can open them pretty well, only a few that I couldn't get.

The American 5200 are pretty much the opposite for me. I use to have a ton of these to that I would find near connex's and by all the trucks but I have only opened a few of them depending on the key bidding. I found that if the first pins in the lock were like a 6 or bigger, then the chances of me opening the lock was very small. It was hard to set pins in the back when there are tall pins in the front or in the middle.

[nostromo]

The Best locks are a whole little world. Very nicely made. A good overview of Small Format Interchangeable Core locks is at http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/sfic/.

Just about everyone I know that services SFIC does not even attempt to pick these locks, they just drill the shear line and move on to the next service call. This is assuming that the lock is not one that they have organized or they would have the change key or another master (grand, sub, side) that would open it.

You want practice learning the feel of master pinds binding, SFIC is the way to go.

Anybody remember the SFIC change key tension wrench? Wasn;t that a write up in "Locksmith Ledger" or something like that? Now, there's a fun challenge for you! Make that tension wrench and pick the side bar!

Say, RECLUSE, if you are soon to leave the military, have a little time before you leave, and are interested in the field, have you considered one of the mailorder courses? Your chain of command might even pay for it if they are having you perform those service. It's a Secondary NEC in the Navy, btw.

[TheWire]

I am in the military and in my off time I enjoy picking locks. The 5200 series American is kicking my ass....the "gold" variety doesn't seem to give me any problems. I believe that silver variety however is a side bar lock. I do not know though. Can you help me? I have a very good pick set, but I can't seem to beat this one. It's one of the only ones that I haven't managed to get into yet.

[Squelchtone]

I am in the military and in my off time I enjoy picking locks. The 5200 series American is kicking my donkey....the "gold" variety doesn't seem to give me any problems. I believe that silver variety however is a side bar lock. I do not know though. Can you help me? I have a very good pick set, but I can't seem to beat this one. It's one of the only ones that I haven't managed to get into yet.

It is not a side bar lock, it is the exact same mechanism no matter what coating or finish your padlock is. Some locks are pinned differently with tougher pin combinations. What type of picks are you using and are you using bottom of keyway tensioning or top of keyway? Try top of keyway and before you apply any tension, use the back of a hook pick to overlift all of the pins as high as they go, then apply top of keyway tension, and gradually lower the tension letting pins drop one by one, and pick them into place while doing that. use a hook pick to SPP or a half diamond to rake from back to front while slowly lowering the amount of tension.

Welcome to the forum,
Squelchtone

[TheWire]

I did what you said and sure enough I had it open in less than 5 minutes....it took some getting used to though. I've never really tried a TOK entry but after I got the hang of it, it worked like a charm. Thanks a million! If I have problems with any others then I will be sure to let you know. Thanks again.

[werelwolf]

Thouse sound like some intense locks to be picking, that's very good! Also, squelchton, I've been lurking these forums for quite a while ( oh gawd, 08? I'm embarrased! ) and this is the first I've seen of that top of keyway method explained!

Now, I can understand how it would offer a different application of torque ( Well, when I think about it, it seems like it would ) and sounds really slick, but I was just suddenly pleased to see explained a new way to work around tricky situations and wanted to post about it!

~W

[kf5hwa]

I am new to this but have found the advice very helpful on the American 5200. Very light tension is key to sucess. I also found that on my specific lock I can usually pick it counter-clockwise in under a minute. If I try to pick it clockwise it is hit and miss if I will pop it or not. I then use the rubber band and tension wrench plug spinning trick. I am still being challanged by the American 100 / U.S. ? Small square brass body rounded face and back. This lock just doesn't like my picks.

[Gapper402]

To the OP, there is hope, lol. I'm in the Army and picked up picking for somewhat of the same reason. The 5200's are used absolutely everywhere with us, from fridges with soda to safes with something more than soda . Like so many above said, light tension, my first pick attempt at these locks resulted in a broken pick from frustration, now I'm popping them in a few minutes usually. There is a lot of security pins usually but once you accept that and feel for them its not too bad. Best of luck and let me know when you get it!

[Gapper402]

It is not a side bar lock, it is the exact same mechanism no matter what coating or finish your padlock is. Some locks are pinned differently with tougher pin combinations. What type of picks are you using and are you using bottom of keyway tensioning or top of keyway? Try top of keyway and before you apply any tension, use the back of a hook pick to overlift all of the pins as high as they go, then apply top of keyway tension, and gradually lower the tension letting pins drop one by one, and pick them into place while doing that. use a hook pick to SPP or a half diamond to rake from back to front while slowly lowering the amount of tension.

Welcome to the forum,
Squelchtone

Thouse sound like some intense locks to be picking, that's very good! Also, squelchton, I've been lurking these forums for quite a while ( oh gawd, 08? I'm embarrased! ) and this is the first I've seen of that top of keyway method explained!

Now, I can understand how it would offer a different application of torque ( Well, when I think about it, it seems like it would ) and sounds really slick, but I was just suddenly pleased to see explained a new way to work around tricky situations and wanted to post about it!

~W

Sorry in advance for going off topic but Werewolf said what I was thinking. I haven't been on these forums for anywhere near his time but the TOK explanation by Squelchtone is the first one I've seen and so appreciated, I'm jumping offline to go and try this out right now! Thanks Squelch!