Medeco Biaxial with and without sidebar

[Josh K]

So I have a 5-pin mortise biaxial cylinder that I can reliably pick without the sidebar. Three mushroom drivers, two normal drivers, on pin that's master keyed.

Once I put the sidebar in, I can't even get two pins. I can't tell if they are setting or not, and even then it's hard to tell if I've properly set the sidebar without putting a lot of tension on it. If it turns then everything's good, but if not then I have to carefully back off otherwise risk resetting the pins.

[femurat]

How many pins did you put into the lock? Start with one... and then add the others one by one.
Don't be afraid of letting the pins fall: that's a part of the game.

Cheers

[globallockytoo]

It's really an advanced topic but you are forgetting about how the sidebar in a Medeco lock works. It doesnt work on pin depths.

[Eyes_Only]

I thought Medeco was no longer considered advanced?

[FarmerFreak]

Do the pins in your Medeco have the groove all the way down the pin? If so you should consider making a Medecoder or a groovegrabber.

If you don't have that option, or simply don't want to take the easier way out. You'll need to find/make a pick that can easily turn the pins. If you are going clockwise typically you will need to set the depths and then rotate the pins, if you are going anticlockwise you will typically rotate and then set the depths. If a pin isn't rotationally set correctly it can become completely rigid. Because the sidebar is digging into the pin locking it up from even wiggling a little bit. And yes to turn those pins sometimes you have little choice but to let other pins unset, hopefully not all of them.

I hope this helps. Have fun they can be quite the challenge.

I thought Medeco was no longer considered advanced?

That's what I thought since we have been discussing them in the open about as long as I've been on the forum.

[Eyes_Only]

I've had good results with a deforest or a simple short hook pick to rotate the bottom pins.

[Josh K]

It's really an advanced topic but you are forgetting about how the sidebar in a Medeco lock works. It doesnt work on pin depths.

No, I know how it works. I can rotate the bottom pins fairly well considering there are only three positions. However, like I said, I'm having trouble telling if that's the correct rotation or not.

[Josh K]

How many pins did you put into the lock? Start with one... and then add the others one by one.
Don't be afraid of letting the pins fall: that's a part of the game.

Cheers

I started with one when I put the sidebar back in but that was easy.

[femurat]

With 2 pins, try to set just one pin and then feel the second pin behaviour. You'll find out quite easy if it's rotationally set or not. Try this many times before adding the third pin. That's how I learnt to understand it.

Good luck

[Josh K]

I guess it was just a problem with the tension and a bit of practice. Two pins down, three to go!

[cyrus104]

Nice, I have a couple on order and working on getting one of them as a cutaway. Not sure if it will help but it will be nice to have a camera or a picking buddy watch.

How does the pin feel to you when you are rotating it? Does it kind of click like when you hit a shear line or is it a smooth rotation?

Thanks

[Josh K]

Nice, I have a couple on order and working on getting one of them as a cutaway. Not sure if it will help but it will be nice to have a camera or a picking buddy watch.

How does the pin feel to you when you are rotating it? Does it kind of click like when you hit a shear line or is it a smooth rotation?

Thanks

It's incredibly difficult to tell the difference between a set pin that needs to be rotated, and anything else. Because of the mushroom drivers it's easy to pick it into a false set and not know it till you go to set the sidebar. I have the key and pinned the cylinder so I know what the sidebar is. I imagine if I didn't know that would probably suck a whole lot worse.

Right now I am getting it ever 1 out of 5 tries with three pins in the thing. I don't try for very long, 4-5 minutes normally. If I can't get it in that I untension it and give my hands a break.

[Josh K]

If you want to practice, separate out the defenses. Sidebar and the shear line. Practice picking without the sidebar until you can do a fully pinned cylinder. Follow DB's 1-5 (or 6) steps and add pins until you're comfortable.

Then take all the springs and driver pins out, start with one pin and the sidebar. LEAVE THE SPRINGS AND DRIVER PINS OUT. Don't put any in. Just one bottom pin and the sidebar. Tension it a little and use a hook to rotate the pin. You will feel it in the tension wrench and the pick when it sets. After you get comfortable go to two pins and so on. Mix them up and forget the sidebar code and then decode it with the hook or half diamond.

Then put the springs and driver pins in and start back with one pin. Pick to the shear line and then rotate the pin to set the sidebar.

[cyrus104]

That's going to help a bunch when I get these in.

I'll check out a guide for disassembly on the lock, that normally also helps the understanding process.

Thanks again

[Josh K]

Some eye candy for you.





I'm going to try and get a set of breakdown pictures taken with steps.