new chubb m3's

[Rickthepick]

Iv heard theres a new m3 that also incorporates a slider mech as well as the medeco style sidebar...

How pickproof does a lock really need to be?

Surely this is only making the life of the locksmith more difficult and not the criminal

[Squelchtone]

Iv heard theres a new m3 that also incorporates a slider mech as well as the medeco style sidebar...

How pickproof does a lock really need to be?

Surely this is only making the life of the locksmith more difficult and not the criminal

M3 IS the model with a slider mechanism, I don't think there is an even newer M3 that has yet another slider..

lift pins to shear
rotate pins to align sidebar gates
insert paperclip to bypass slider.

open.

If you don't already own a copy, I recommend buying the book Open in Thirty Seconds, anything you even wanted to know about Medeco is covered.

Squelchtone

[Rickthepick]

lol im always a few years behind i do apologise

[Squelchtone]

How pickproof does a lock really need to be?

That's the dark secret the lock industry has.. There isn't much innovation going on, so in order to have yet another 20 years added to their patents, they make a slight change in the design or add a bell or whistle in order to have patents on their keys and their mechanisms, which helps the end user have restricted keys and for big companies to not have to come up with fresh ideas. I don't think any of it is done in mind with making the lock even more pick resistant.

Medeco's slider is a great example of this, Schlage Primus' 7th sidebar pin position is another, and mul-t-lock's interactive floating element is also a good example. (It certainly made making your own keys from scratch more difficult)

Cheers,
Squelchtone

[Josh K]

How pickproof does a lock really need to be?

That's the dark secret the lock industry has.. There isn't much innovation going on, so in order to have yet another 20 years added to their patents, they make a slight change in the design or add a bell or whistle in order to have patents on their keys and their mechanisms, which helps the end user have restricted keys and for big companies to not have to come up with fresh ideas. I don't think any of it is done in mind with making the lock even more pick resistant.

Medeco's slider is a great example of this, Schlage Primus' 7th sidebar pin position is another, and mul-t-lock's interactive floating element is also a good example. (It certainly made making your own keys from scratch more difficult)

Cheers,
Squelchtone

Once could argue that the CLIQ platform would be an example of improvement, however in reality it's easily bypassed and the cost is huge.

[Schuyler]

Medeco's slider is a great example of this,

Though it adds 0 pick resistance, it does add to key control. It is not meant to be an additional security measure the way we think of it, just key control. I'm not saying that's a super-awesome addition to a lock, but the only people who play it up as a failed attempt at added security are lockpickers. It's just about key control.

Schlage Primus' 7th sidebar pin position is another

I don't disagree with that, but I also haven't studied the development of the Primus too closely.

and mul-t-lock's interactive floating element is also a good example. (It certainly made making your own keys from scratch more difficult)

What about DOM? Or any of the dozen other European manufacturers that now have interactive elements in their keys? Those weren't about adding life to a patent, it was because France changed the patent rules altogether, saying that you could not receive a patent on a key if it did not have some movable part. They weren't gaming the patent system, they were adapting to new demands from that system.

[Squelchtone]

because France changed the patent rules altogether, saying that you could not receive a patent on a key if it did not have some movable part.

I did not know that, thanks Shoes. And you're right about key control being a viable and patentable feature, I was mostly focusing on Medeco's slider as being a "meh" improvement over others I have seen. But don't think I totally hate Medeco, I'm a total fanboy, but there is a difference in liking the mechanics, design, and history of a product vs liking the company and how they do business.

Squelchtone

[Schuyler]

Haha - I know you're a fanboy. The whole "slider is pick resistance that failed" thing is just a pet peeve of mine. Personally, I think it's kinda clever, but agree that it's not worth the upgrade.

I still go crazy when people don't understand that bi-axial doesn't mean lift and rotate. That EVERY medeco EVER lifts and rotates. In fact, when you think about it, save for the ARX pins, there have been no significant security updates to Medeco's locking concept. Even the Bi-Axial was about expanding key differs.