UAP zero lift antibump cylinders

[Rickthepick]

anyone tested these things yet?

mechanical un-bumpable locks... same people that make pickbuster

[Schuyler]

link/pictures?

[Rickthepick]

http://www.locksandsecuritynews.com/pag ... mping.html

[Squelchtone]

If the lock is 5 pin, and this special pin stack is in one of 5 positions, couldn't a person just manufacture 5 bump keys where the deeper/shallow cut progresses along the bitting of the key? Now you just walk around with 5 bump keys and one of them should work.

maybe I'm not fully understanding it though..

Squelchtone

[Rickthepick]

sounds like you cracked it right there

[Schuyler]

To understand the problem, rather than the theory, we wanted to see lock bumping in action. So we built the first ever see-through cylinder, and filmed it in slow motion being bumped.

They are SO far from the first to do this it's embarrassing.

Also - by insisting on a 0 pin and a 10 cut pin in every lock they reduce their key differs dramatically, and not just by determining those two positions. The pins around the 10 in particular will be restricted by MACS, so you can reasonably predict 4 of the 6 pins in the lock immediately. Determining which is the 0 pin should be pretty easy though inspection of the cylinder, and by raising the stacks you should be able to determine the 10 cut as well.

I would also venture that mechanically you might have to keep the 0 pin from ever being past the 10 pin in the lock, as a peak the high might not be able to pass a pin that long with ease. I don't know how tall the bible is, but in practice this could cause problems.

However, all you need to do to bump this lock is determine the 0 pin's position. You'll have 6 bump keys, one for each position of the 0 pin:

/\,_,_,_,_,_
,_/\,_,_,_,_
,_,_/\,_,_,_
,_,_,_/\,_,_
,_,_,_,_/\,_
,_,_,_,_,_/\

And you should be back in business bumping the lock.

Finally:

"The over-riding benefit of the Zero lift concept, in addition to the safety aspect, is the price," David Jennings points out. "They are by far, the lowest cost mechanically Anti Bump cylinder in the market."

I have a difficult time believing that (as they say they are planning to roll this out internationally) that's actually the case. Either way, it seems like a crock. Plus - with the two major american brands changing their product line to be perfectly bump proof it looks like another late-in-the-game solution for a problem that is, thankfully, finally, on it's way out.

[Schuyler]

If the lock is 5 pin, and this special pin stack is in one of 5 positions, couldn't a person just manufacture 5 bump keys where the deeper/shallow cut progresses along the bitting of the key? Now you just walk around with 5 bump keys and one of them should work.

maybe I'm not fully understanding it though..

Squelchtone

it squelch. I was typing as fast as I could =P

[Squelchtone]

If the lock is 5 pin, and this special pin stack is in one of 5 positions, couldn't a person just manufacture 5 bump keys where the deeper/shallow cut progresses along the bitting of the key? Now you just walk around with 5 bump keys and one of them should work.

maybe I'm not fully understanding it though..

Squelchtone

<censored> it squelch. I was typing as fast as I could =P

heh.. <censored> you must have written da mn. I like your ASCII drawing though, I know those things are a pain to align.

have a good day everybody,
Squelchtone

[Schuyler]

Ugh - so I was just doing some measurements on their example cylinder there. The bible has been made larger to accommodate for what I was worried about above - but guess what that does? Makes it combable. Well, not perfectly! The 10 pin isn't, but again, you should be able to figure out the position of the 10 is, then just have 6 different combs. And actually, in that case? Trying 6 different ones is so fast you probably don't need to bother determining the 10.

idiots.

[Rickthepick]

Its like throwing a bunny to the lions with you guys hehe.

Thats why i like this site! you do know your stuff

[Schuyler]

Haha, we try.

[Phatphish]

The ten cut looks like it would make for an easy to snap key.

[EmCee]

Could we run through this one more time because I think I'm missing something.

Isn't the 10 pin critical? If you made a set of bump keys cut for each position of the 0 pin, one of the other five cuts would still touch the 10 pin and lift it above the shear line.

Cheers....

[Rickthepick]

I dont do bumping... but as far as im aware you fully insert bump key, pull back a fraction then whack it some. so that cut is already home. I think it would probably need to be a micron deeper though as it still may bump it fractionally above the sheer line

[EmCee]

I don't do bumping either but yes, that's how it works.

However, that would mean you'd need more than six keys, surely - you'd have to make a set with 0 and 10 cuts in several relative positions (although MACS would limit the number of combinations and therefore the number of keys you'd need).

But even then, unless the 10 pin was in the last (or first - ie furthest from the bow of the key) position in the lock, the preceding cut would lift it, and while the bump key is in the 'almost there' position, that pin would rest on the angle leading up from the 10 cut and therefore be above the shear line. You'd then apply torsion to the key and whack it home - but I would have thought the 10 pin would bind and not fall down into the 10 cut.

Probably be difficult to pick as well, unless the 10 pin was in the last position, as you'd have to get the tool beneath it to lift the pins behind, without touching the 10 pin even slightly.

I'm probably just being thick.

Cheers...