Bumping M3

[Rickthepick]

Watching this vid

http://www.youtube.com/embed/KEGGHF_EVig

Is this a for real bumping or has he just made a bump key using an existing key so the angles are already there...

I know how a medeco bump key works but as far as im aware iv never seen an m3 bumped.

[SnowyBoy]

Watching this vid

http://www.youtube.com/embed/KEGGHF_EVig

Is this a for real bumping or has he just made a bump key using an existing key so the angles are already there...

I know how a medeco bump key works but as far as im aware iv never seen an m3 bumped.

I'm pretty confused by it too :/

I didn't notice any difference with the cut on the key for the sidebar locking wedge (the M3 component) and as far as I could tell from the cutaway I had that wedge needs to go right the way back before you can think about decoding the pins to the sidebar.

I remain dubious....

[Evan]

Watching this vid

http://www.youtube.com/embed/KEGGHF_EVig

Is this a for real bumping or has he just made a bump key using an existing key so the angles are already there...

I know how a medeco bump key works but as far as im aware iv never seen an m3 bumped.

I'm pretty confused by it too :/

I didn't notice any difference with the cut on the key for the sidebar locking wedge (the M3 component) and as far as I could tell from the cutaway I had that wedge needs to go right the way back before you can think about decoding the pins to the sidebar.

I remain dubious....

Dunno... Its not often in these sort of videos where you actually see the "magician" breakdown the lock after the show to see that it is really a fully equipped high security cylinder...

Could it be a modified lock with bi-level pins and a sidebar operated only by the M3 slider technology rather than one with the M3 slider that also needed to align with 6 angled bottom pins ?

That bump key looked like total crap compared to ones I have seen used in some other similar vids...

~~ Evan

[Theist17]

Could it be that he has the magic number of keys the Tobias team worked on, and he's just using the key he knows works on that lock?

[chriswingate]

Could it be that he has the magic number of keys the Tobias team worked on, and he's just using the key he knows works on that lock?

From the looks of his original key bitting, it looks possible that he could have cut down his 2nd key into a bump key, which if he filed all the cuts down somewhat decent, he would still have the sidebar code present in the "bump key" right?

Just my thoughts on it.

[Theist17]

Could it be that he has the magic number of keys the Tobias team worked on, and he's just using the key he knows works on that lock?

From the looks of his original key bitting, it looks possible that he could have cut down his 2nd key into a bump key, which if he filed all the cuts down somewhat decent, he would still have the sidebar code present in the "bump key" right?

Just my thoughts on it.

Yeah, that'd work. Seems pretty useless as an entry tool, provided that you need the source key to make a bump key with the correct sidebar code. As this guy does it, anyway.

[chriswingate]

Yeah basically, the only way would be to use an existing in use key. Which for entry purposes is useless, but i suppose as a teaching aid on how these locks can be bumped, it works. To actually use this method of entry you would need to make 4 code setting or bump keys for biaxial, and 16 for the m3.

[vov35]

given the fact that the pin tumbler and sidebar mechanisms are picked separately, couldn't one use snapping/bumping to accelerate the picking process?

[chriswingate]

given the fact that the pin tumbler and sidebar mechanisms are picked separately, couldn't one use snapping/bumping to accelerate the picking process?

What do you mean exactly? set the sidebar code, then try to bump it or use a snap gun?
I don't know about other people, but I shave never had much luck with snap guns, and with the mushroom securities it would probably lock into a false set, which you would have to pick out of that anyway. As far as bumping it, the code setting keys are the bump keys with a little filed off of the shoulder, so if you have them, you can use them to bump the lock open, or set the sidebar code and pick it to sheer manually.

[vov35]

bump the pins to the shear line first, withdraw the bump key, then pick the sidebar... as I recall the sidebar engages a few degrees after the pins

[chriswingate]

yeah you generally get a small bit of plug rotation when the lock is set to shear, so I suppose even if the bump key didn't have the correct sidebar code it could possibly still bump the pins to shear, then you could rotate afterwards.

[Evan]

bump the pins to the shear line first, withdraw the bump key, then pick the sidebar... as I recall the sidebar engages a few degrees after the pins

@vov35:

Not in a Medeco cylinder... The cylinder is not capable of rotating at all until the sidebar disengages by retracting into the slots milled on side the bottom pins in the cylinder... That has to do with the pins being rotated to the correct angle... Then the pins must also be at the correct height to make a shearline...

Bumping a Medeco cylinder requires some insider information to know what keyway and the sidebar code is in L/C/R notation for original cylinders or K/M/B/D/Q/S notation for Biaxial and M3 (or having a large enough set of properly cut bump keys available on every keyway)... The bump key must rotate the pins to the correct angle and is merely being used to set the shearline through the bumping action when you tap on it...

With Original and Biaxial you need to accomplish both the rotation of the pins to the proper angle and the raising the pins to the shearline simultaneously to bump or pick it -- M3 adds the slider which blocks the sidebar...

~~ Evan

[chriswingate]

I know in some Medeco cylinders it can rotate if the pins are set to shear, especially the m3, I've picked a few of those, and when they are set to shear they turn a small degree until binding on the sidebar.

Maybe this isnt correct for all cylinders, but it is for the m3's I have.

[vov35]

bump the pins to the shear line first, withdraw the bump key, then pick the sidebar... as I recall the sidebar engages a few degrees after the pins

@vov35:

Not in a Medeco cylinder... The cylinder is not capable of rotating at all until the sidebar disengages by retracting into the slots milled on side the bottom pins in the cylinder... That has to do with the pins being rotated to the correct angle... Then the pins must also be at the correct height to make a shearline...

Don't you ever like.. pick locks? stuff doesn't all bind simultaneously, and the sidebar tolerances are generally looser. That or you could pick the sidebar first, if it chooses to bind instead.