Unpickable lock proposal

[azz19]

Hi, I have invented a new type of lock, from the outside looks like a regular pin tumbler lock and uses a normal pin tumbler key so no need for specialized key cutting machines.
I haven't patented it yet so can't go in to much detail but it can not be impressioned, bumped or picked.
When I say "can not" I mean it would be very hard, the same as how abloy protec is technically pickable but know one has been able to pick it yet.

Anyway I'm thinking of licencing it to a company after I patent it and finish my prototype.
how much do you think this is worth?

[Squelchtone]

Hi, I have invented a new type of lock, from the outside looks like a regular pin tumbler lock and uses a normal pin tumbler key so no need for specialized key cutting machines.
I haven't patented it yet so can't go in to much detail but it can not be impressioned, bumped or picked.
When I say "can not" I mean it would be very hard, the same as how abloy protec is technically pickable but know one has been able to pick it yet.

Anyway I'm thinking of licencing it to a company after I patent it and finish my prototype.
how much do you think this is worth?

Nothing at the moment. You have to build up value, a product isn't worth $1,000,000 just out of the gate.

If it uses a regular cut key, my regular lock picks can pick it. period.

Show us some pics or diagrams at least, and get a provisional application patent started so at least your idea has a starting date.

Squelchtone

[MrScruff]

If your prototype's not even finished I think it's worth approximately $0.00. Without knowing anything about the design, ease of use, cost of production, profit margin, investor interest, etc. there's really no way to answer that question.

What I suggest you do is finish your prototype, figure out your demographic (i.e. high-security settings, residential customers, Hannibal Lector) and gauge their interest in this product. After that, figure out your competition, how this could fail and come up with a plan to deal with both. Lastly, remember that the only things a business always has are expenses; even if you are successful, expect to run in the red for at least two years.

And one nitpick, "can not" is far away from "very hard". When you're marketing a product avoid redefining statements like that, it shakes faith in the rest of your claims.

[Scope]

Also give it a good name!

Maybe when it does go into production, have a few for us here, I'm sure we can come to an arrangement over cost so we can see what it's like.

I'm sure here we have some of the best lockpickers around. You want to test how good it is? Look no further!

Regards

[azz19]

Thanks for the advise everyone.

It's true that I need to finish the prototype first but if it works how it is supported to It will be incredibly hard to pick with normal picks.

I defiantly need to find out the cost of production and profit margin. does anyone know what these are for some regular high-security pin tumblers?

The lock will most likely be for residential customers who want high-security without the wired keys that are expensive and hard to get.

As soon as I get it patented I'll post some diagrams and stuff. I'am also very interested to see if anyone would be able to pick it.

lets say I make this lock and It is as difficult to pick as the abloy protec, just with less combinations because it uses a regular key. do you think there is a market for it? or is there no space in-between the high-security pin tumblers (e.g. yale X5) and higher-security locks with special keys?

[mh]

This articke might be interesting to you: http://blackbag.nl/?p=194

Currently, that segment of the market is all about patented keys, because customers want protected keys (at least they want the 'feeling' that their keys cannot be easily duplicated, the reality might be different...)

So you would need to convince them that key duplication protection is not a real value they should spend their money on when they want more security (as they have been told over the years from the industry), but they should rather prefer easily duplicated keys, and get picking protection instead.
Good luck...

Cheers
mh

[MrScruff]

As things go in the computer security world... remember that security is not one thing and that there's no such thing as "completely secure", it's several things working together to reduce a would-be thief's incentive and making yourself "secure enough". "Secure enough" means you keep the people you want out long enough that it doesn't matter anymore by the time they get in. I think physical security is about the same, but with less of a shock hazard. If you're looking for residential customers interested in high security your best bet is to get in good with a locksmith because that's probably where your future clients will be.

You might want to consider pitching to schools and companies in large office buildings as well. My wife's a teacher and one school she taught at had a consistent issue with kids breaking into the supply closet, I don't believe that issue has been resolved to this day, and I imagine a lot of companies would be interested in a similar option. At the very least, it would give pen-testers something to talk about.

[Rickthepick]

There have been many unpickable designs since the invention of the lock.

I use the word unpickable as loosely as you do in your claim.

But there will always be someone smarter out there that can 'open' it.

That is a fact.

I would also check the idea doesnt already exist in some form before investing any money.

Lock making is as old as the need to protect ones valuables... a long time, and most good ideas have already been used even if you havent heard about them yet.

Post up your plans, im pretty sure nobody reading here has the time or money to gamble on stealing your idea.

[GeneT]

Remember that, in addition to security a lock must be manufacturable, affordable, and reliable even after years of neglect. It will be exposed to moisture, heat, dirt / dust, lint and always be expected to work. Any lock that requires genuine maintenance or ceases to function will not fare well with the customers. If it's difficult to manufacture, or simply too costly it will reach only a very small market.

Old safe locks (when keys were common) offer some neat ideas for a pick resistant locks, and from the anti-picking standpoint some would be quite good even today. But the other aspects (manufacturability, affordability, reliability) make them impractical.

GsT

[azz19]

This articke might be interesting to you: http://blackbag.nl/?p=194

Thanks this helped me a lot.

You might want to consider pitching to schools and companies in large office buildings as well.

Good idea but if it works I would prefer to just licence or sell it to one of the leading brands.

Post up your plans, im pretty sure nobody reading here has the time or money to gamble on stealing your idea.

You can never be to careful but I also cant post them because if an invention become public domain e.g. it appears on the internet it wont be patentable.

Remember that, in addition to security a lock must be manufacturable, affordable, and reliable even after years of neglect.

Affordability is my main concern because it dose contain a few components about .025 inches in size.

[nothumbs]

If you want to patent your invention, do not disclose details in a public forum.

There are many online resources that explain the patent process. Get your idea down on paper with as much detail as possible. You may want to look at some existing lock patents to get an idea for the level of detail required both in text and drawings. Then consult with a patent attorney. Filing for a patent is not inexpensive, nor quick. Also note that a successful patent application in the US does not grant international protection; yet another reason to consult with a patent attorney.

[Evan]

Hi, I have invented a new type of lock, from the outside looks like a regular pin tumbler lock and uses a normal pin tumbler key so no need for specialized key cutting machines.
I haven't patented it yet so can't go in to much detail but it can not be impressioned, bumped or picked.
When I say "can not" I mean it would be very hard, the same as how abloy protec is technically pickable but know one has been able to pick it yet.

Anyway I'm thinking of licencing it to a company after I patent it and finish my prototype.
how much do you think this is worth?

@azz19:

An unpatented invention has no value...

You will need to find and retain a patent attorney to be able to make a patent application that has a possibility of being granted... Then you file it... Then you wait (sometimes several years) and hope that no one has come up with your idea and was in the process of getting it patented when you came along...

Thinking of licensing something which you do not hold any sort of established and designated legal rights to at the moment is a pipe dream... Your time at the moment is better spent thinking of other more useful things...

It is nice that you claim your lock design is highly resistant to: impressioning, picking and bumping but your design is lacking in the "uses a normal pin tumbler key" aspect as people have come to expect high security locks to have some sort of patented key control on the cylinder keyway and blanks...

Your idea sounds like it is well thought out but at the same time needs some improvement and refinement by someone with knowledge and experience in the field of high security locks...

Good luck with your invention...

~~ Evan

[azz19]

It is nice that you claim your lock design is highly resistant to: impressioning, picking and bumping but your design is lacking in the "uses a normal pin tumbler key" aspect as people have come to expect high security locks to have some sort of patented key control on the cylinder keyway and blanks...

If consumers need patented a keyway/blanks I'm sure that could be added to the lock as well.
Maybe there could be two models, one with a patented keyway and one with an unpatented keyway.

[Aractus]

Hi, I have invented a new type of lock, from the outside looks like a regular pin tumbler lock and uses a normal pin tumbler key so no need for specialized key cutting machines.
I haven't patented it yet so can't go in to much detail but it can not be impressioned, bumped or picked.
When I say "can not" I mean it would be very hard, the same as how abloy protec is technically pickable but know one has been able to pick it yet.

Anyway I'm thinking of licencing it to a company after I patent it and finish my prototype.
how much do you think this is worth?

If you're serious you need to patent it immediatly, or else you won't know for certain that you can patent it, and if you can't it won't be worth anything. I have a "friend" who invented a new type of advertising, patented it, found investors (he needed to raise about $100,000-$150,000 so he could buy the equipment he needs), he has already found clients who are wanting to purchase it, and for the number of units they want he should be turning a profit pretty soon for him and all his investors, and for his clients. Of course, if he hadn't patented it then when he went to find customers for it, they could have just as easily submitted their own patent ahead of him.

You need to design it with a patented blank. If your blank is patented then it can only be duplicated when licensed, and you can be as restrictive as you like in your patent. Your prototype doesn't need a patented blank, you can use whatever you want so long as you can demonstrate it well enough to try and sell it. Good luck.

[vov35]

**le facepalm**

If you want advice, why don't you post it in The Open Source Lock, instead of herping a derp about how "you don't want to release info". Or you could just not bring it up here.

I'm sorry, I really don't mean offense, but we can't discuss much if you won't disclose anything...