KW1/KW10/KW11

[gswimfrk]

I have seen many locks using the old Kwikset Ultramax/Titan Keyways however I have seen many key blanks for that purpose. From what i understand:

KW1: 5 Pin
KW10: 6 Pin
KW11: 6 Pin

From what I understand I can cut a KW1 5 pin key on a KW10 but not the KW10 on the KW1.

What about KW11 Keys? do they work the same as KW10s?

I recently bought a key machine and am trying to figure out if there is 1 universal key blank for the kwiksets so I can stock less blanks.

If the KW11 is the same as KW10, then I need not stock KW1s as they can be cut on KW10s.

Thanks

[deception]

I have seen many locks using the old Kwikset Ultramax/Titan Keyways however I have seen many key blanks for that purpose. From what i understand:

KW1: 5 Pin
KW10: 6 Pin
KW11: 6 Pin

From what I understand I can cut a KW1 5 pin key on a KW10 but not the KW10 on the KW1.

What about KW11 Keys? do they work the same as KW10s?

I recently bought a key machine and am trying to figure out if there is 1 universal key blank for the kwiksets so I can stock less blanks.

If the KW11 is the same as KW10, then I need not stock KW1s as they can be cut on KW10s.

Thanks

The problem you run into when cutting a 5 pin key on a 6 pin key is that the you don't have a shoulder stop anymore. Sure it's possible to do it, but I don't think it's practical to be doing it.

[MacGnG1]

You MUST stock KW1. That is like 50% of residential locks... You can stock much less of the KW10/11, you will come across some Ultramax/Titan locks but you definitely need at least a few of the not-so-common blanks.

[gswimfrk]

Hahah I was hoping to keep my key blank array to a minimum

I had always thought that the KW10 top shoulder stop is the same distance as the KW1 top shoulder stop... thats why I assumed it would work.

Whats the difference between a KW11 and a KW10? At home depot for either key they use the Axxess 97 for the two.

Lastly what keyblanks should I stock? I use primarily SC1,KW1,SC4,Y1,M1,AR1,AR4,KW10,BEST K, WHAT ELSE SHOULD I ORDER? I bought a key duplicator from china for only 70 USD. Quality is comparable to an HPC/ILCO.

Thanks.

[averagejoe]

I bought a key duplicator from china for only 70 USD

Comparable quality? This is one area where you truly get what you pay for. I just guessing here, but it wont last very long. Have you cut any keys yet?

[deception]

Lastly what keyblanks should I stock? I use primarily SC1,KW1,SC4,Y1,M1,AR1,AR4,KW10,BEST K, WHAT ELSE SHOULD I ORDER? I bought a key duplicator from china for only 70 USD. Quality is comparable to an HPC/ILCO.

Stock as many of the Best type blanks as you can. There's like 16 different keyways for Best ICore, Stocking 1 is going to limit your sales.

I think you have most of the big ones in that last post. It really depends on what your area is like for hardware. You could think about stocking some Sergeant blanks, some Y6's.

[Doctor Hexagon]

It really depends on the area. Some areas have more of one kind of lock than others. We stock an array of Best key variations, Sargent, and Yale variations, and Corbin Russwin. That being said 70% or more of what I cut each day is Schlage C, with the another 20% being KW1/5. The last 10% random really.

This town used to be 70% Weiser locks before Schlage became more predominant. Back where I used to live in Ohio it was mostly Kwikset.

[gswimfrk]

The quality of the machine is actually quite good. The only problem is that it runs on 220v , but that is no problem as I have a converter.

However, I do only plan to cut keys for our property management company.

What other residential keys should I stock? I know we have a few falcons and weiser locks on some buildings, but our ex-locksmith cut weisers/falcons on KW1s. ?!?!?!!? (Im pretty sure that is bad!)

So I guess I would need to stock FA2/FA1 and WR1/WR4s as well?

Thanks

[MacGnG1]

probably BEST "A" and Sargent "LA" would be two more to add to the list.

[Evan]

Hahah I was hoping to keep my key blank array to a minimum

I had always thought that the KW10 top shoulder stop is the same distance as the KW1 top shoulder stop... thats why I assumed it would work.

Whats the difference between a KW11 and a KW10? At home depot for either key they use the Axxess 97 for the two.

Lastly what keyblanks should I stock? I use primarily SC1,KW1,SC4,Y1,M1,AR1,AR4,KW10,BEST K, WHAT ELSE SHOULD I ORDER? I bought a key duplicator from china for only 70 USD. Quality is comparable to an HPC/ILCO.

Thanks.

@gswinfrk:

You are correct that a KW1 is the same length as a KW10/KW11 is to the shoulder stop next to the bittings on the key blade... However you can not use a 5 pin KW1 key blank to cut a 6 pin KW10/KW11 key as the bottom shoulder stop on the KW1 blank is in the position as the one at the top, meaning the KW1 key will not fully enter a lock designed for KW10/KW11 keys... Functionally the only difference between a KW10 and a KW11 is the shape of the bow on the key...

If you are only cutting keys for your own purposes you only need to keep keys on hand to be able to duplicate the ones which work in your locks... I only used to have 30 key blanks in stock back when i worked in facilities management and only 10 of the blanks were for building locks, the rest were all for office furniture/filing cabinets... Every once and a great while we would order blanks to cut some replacement keys for some vehicles but we didn't keep a supply of those on hand at all times...

~~ Evan

[MBI]

However, I do only plan to cut keys for our property management company.
What other residential keys should I stock?

It seems to me then that this question would be best directed towards your company to see which locks they are using, or which key types they've needed in the past for the brands that are common in your area. In my area around 95% of the household keys I duplicate are SC1, WR5 or KW1. It feels like you're leaking information to us in little pieces instead of telling us what you need up front, and it's changing what answers you receive.

I stock a much bigger variety of automotive, padlock and furniture/cabinet key blanks than I do for household locks. From the way you describe it, if all you're doing is cutting keys for homes, businesses or both (you still haven't specified that) I doubt you'll need to stock much variety in blanks at all. If you're doing businesses, add SC4 blanks to that list.

If you're also responsible for servicing and replacing locks there may be a variety of locks already in place on their properties, but as things need to be replaced over time you can start to standardize with one brand to make things easier over time.

On a separate note, if you want to test how accurate your new key machine really is, make a copy of a key and test out the copy to make sure it works. Then make a copy of that copy, and test it. Keep making a copy of the last copy and see how many generations of copies it will make before you get to a copy that will no longer work in the lock.

[gswimfrk]

lol. I apologize for doing that... its just that one simple question has evolved into many hahaha

However, I am cutting keys for only our residential buildings. I have been taking inventory on all out properties to see what we have on each door.

So with that said...i would need a basic array of house/residential keys and maybe some commercial keys.

Thanks.

[misterj]

Not sure what you've got around there, but we've got a LOT of Sargent and Yale stuff here. Definitely stock a Y4 (the master for the G-series if I remember correctly) and at least a Sargent LA (though Sargent also has a lot of keyways--one of the buildings I work in is LA, another is RA).

Expand your Schlage, too...at least include the E keyway (SC9/SC8)...that's second most common after C. The unrestricted Everests are becoming more common (C123/145), but you have to get those blanks directly from Schlage and I'm sure the amount you'll run into will vary by area.

Like everyone else said, get as many Best keyways as possible...A is by far the most common, but you'll run into others. I've seen at least A, D, F, J, M, and WA around here. Stocking A-M would probably be a good bet. I don't think you'll run into too many PKS or T-series keys.

Corbin-Russwin is a tough one, definitely stock L4, but there are a TON of older keyways and a lot of restricted ones that you won't be able to do anything about. There are a lot of buildings here that still use old Corbin locks--could be because we're relatively close to New Britain, CT--it was practically the default on any building here in the 60s and 70s. SK1 is fairly common, since I believe 77 was the stock keyway for Corbin in older systems for quite a long time. I've seen some CO62 and RU46 too.

As far as small keys, add CO106, NA14, and Chicago (CG16?--can't remember off hand) to your list. They're common in file cabinets and the like.

[Squelchtone]

Here in New England we have a lot of SE1 Segal, lots of AR1 Arrow as well as Y1 Yale. I also see various Corbin and Russwin but that's more on school buildings, city offices, and old apartment buildings.

Keep a selection of Master and American padlock blanks in stock as well, they're both popular brands.

Squelchtone