Commando Locks a overview

[MarkMcGrath]

Commando Lock Company....... I know for the average person, commando, tactical, and other such words inspire strength dependability, and a military robustness not thought of when it comes to more civilian names. For the military however, between living around military quality, sales gimmicks and other such issues you begin to doubt just about anything that is to tacticool for school. To state it simply some military items are strong durable, and highly engineered pieces of equipment that do more things than the average grunt will even imagine. The problem is, that tends to be the exception to the rule so when most military hears military grade, elite tactical, or other such words we begin to cringe in fear. For now I will give you my impression and let the product do the talking, because honestly names aside it’s the product that makes or breaks the product, not the name.

I am going to do a rough draft style overview of these locks here so I can get comments suggestions, and overall bug removal of my thoughts and Ideas. This will be a 2-3 post review, starting with the NSN locks, then the newest lock, and finally letting everyone try to pick/rake it open I can find.

First let me thank the President of the company, Patrick Smith, who sent me more than I thought anyone would. As you can see in the photo he sent 3 padlocks, a short shackle, a long shackle and the new interchangeable shackle lock they are waiting for approval from the military on.



As the letter states each of these locks passes the standards for CID AA59486B and the ASTM F883-09 bump resistance standard. I will have to look up the details on this, but the two locks with the NSN obviously follow the standard, even though the military should have had that standard two decades ago. Anyways back to the locks. As you will see in the photos these standards they meet are for laminated padlocks. While I frankly like solid locks, the reality is these laminated locks are very robust, and take one hell of a beating to get off in general. Size wise the short shackle and long shackle are sized basically to nearly be the same as the Master Lock, and Pacific Lock in service over here already. The notable difference though besides the rounded body, is the inset pins vs the Master Lock’s all bulbous exposed pins. I would think that you in theory couldn't grind off the pins and remove the body, but never trying that on a Master Lock, I can't really see if that is asset, or just an odd feature I noticed.



You will also notice the key way is mirror image of a Master Lock key. This means that all those Master Lock bump keys wouldn't work if they could function in this lock. Security via using a non-standard key in my book is a huge plus. I will admit getting picks in isn't that difficult though, but that’s for another post. Mr. Smith also informed me that the anti-bump is a mixed bag of different style pins and I believe various spring weights, which made my first attempt at picking very frustrating. The first pin in the lock however looks to be a serrated pin. Talking to the President of the company, I got some insight into these locks and there bump resistance. I will let his words speak for the locks, as I think it’s better to hear it from the horse’s mouth at times.

Okay, so our secret to bump proofing? Well, it's a lot simpler than the new cylinders we're designing...we have a random mix of security pins coupled with tighter cylinder and core tolerances. We also engineered a purposeful positive fit between the cam, bearings and shackle so that tensioning takes a bit more skill. Of course it's shim proof too but that goes without saying.

With my skill level so far picking it has only been accomplished once by me, after a few days of playing with the same lock. The pick gun that I am not that great at yet has yielded less then favorable results as well. Picking it might have been blind luck honestly as I knew what the key shape was which always helps greatly. Regardless I think even if you could bump this it wouldn't be an easy task, and add to that new cylinders being designed just makes me more inclined to believe that these locks will get better provided some bypass isn't accidently created. Currently though I haven’t felt anything I can bypass which has become a slight pass time of mine with the Chinese knock off locks.



As you can see here and if you missed Mr. Smith's comments the padlock isn't going to be shimable for obvious reasons. Generally nothing to noteworthy, but after seeing so many padlocks on firearms, sensitive equipment etc. being shimable you start to worry about these things. Obviously this should be a concern for anyone deployed, and that has been reinforced by the recent events on Leatherneck, and the scare that some of the Afghani Taliban were hiding on the base. With all the local workers that frequent our bases, a good lock that isn't shimable by a beer can shouldn't be a suggestion, but a requirement.

[cledry]

If this is like most laminated padlocks you can simply [destructively open] and dump the cylinder. Judging by the design these look to be a quality American made lock that has taken steps to guard against non-destructive entry but not forceful entry for which they look rather vulnerable.

Years ago we actually used to [destructively open] master padlocks to rekey them. Lot of work.

The reverse keyway is common enough, most any locksmith will have these blanks laying around.

Lastly be careful using a pick gun, they tend to often damage springs. If you cannot replace the springs you have junked a working lock.

[GWiens2001]

Where can I get ahold of one of these? Looks fun and interesting. I also like seeing the instructions for shackle replacement.

[Evan]

@MarkMcGrath:

Interesting and well built locks to be sure, but with the iChange having the normal user keys be able to release the shackle sounds like it will ultimately cause more problems with those users who are simply given the keys to a lock to use who stumble upon that function by accident than it will ever be as a beneficial feature to those who know how to use the locks... The company should consider using a modified operator key (like with an under cut) to bypass something added to the cylinder to allow for the rotation to the shackle release position so users will not accidentally activate that feature...

~~ Evan

[MarkMcGrath]

As for the destructive entry, yeah they aren't as hardened as some, but that is due to the restrictions the military places on laminated locks. I will go into this in my next post on the next lock. As I said military sometimes means quality and sometimes doesn't. I have been chatting with the President, who was kind enough to send me the locks to review. He told me that the case hardened shackles were manditory, and many of the features required by the military make them vulinerable to destructive attacks. That said from what I can tell this is a very hardened lock and very durable. I didn't have my phone on me, and if I can get permission I will take photos of a lock that was in a IED still hanging off a vehicle. We aren't allowed to take photos of said vehicles, but I might be able to get permission for the lock only... although I doubt it. Regardless the vehicle fared worse then the lock which had to have taken one hell of a beating, but was still locked onto the side. The key might even work the lock it looks like its survived that well.

Obviously one blast the lock might have gotten lucky etc, I will say the President said if I can get the padlocks shot with guns (a very old and dangerous past time of mine back in the states) and I didn't wack the schackle he would send me another one. He also is well aware that this isn't a valid test, but I think the guy likes the idea of shooting stuff as much as I do.

Regardless of all this the civilian models might be more impressive, and he has a top secret lock I saw pictures of that will blow the other laminated locks out of the water. They really are interested in making the lock as secure as they can for the price, and would probably do more if the military wasn't such idiots about things.

More to come.

[MarkMcGrath]

As for the interchangable shackle, I don't think that will be a huge problem, when you unlock the lock unless you turn the shackle out 180 and turn the key, the issue isn't there. Honestly though I think the concept is more for the military, and if they became common then it wouldn't be a huge issue. I am going to do a huge write up on that lock here in a few days with photos and everything.

[raimundo]

Looks like the US master laminated padlock with balls rather than dogs,
balls cant be shimed, and such locks open only in one cw direction.
the keyway for the US branded master is similiar to a master #27 if memory serves but it is thinner and to even try to impression one of these you get the right blank, then you find that it fits very tight, so you have to shave it with a file one the sides and burin in the grooves, helps to paint it with black marker to see where to shave.

speaking of military spec
story in todays paper says they are now going to make armor vests for female soldiers, seems the previous models were too long and the side plates banged on the ischiel crest, causing repetitive stress injuries and the chest just was not right.

they make em wear the armor all the time now, when I was in, '67-'70 we only wore the flack vest and the steel pot when the weather got fraggy

[MarkMcGrath]

It is similar in outward appearance, but you can defiantly tell the difference once you stick some picks in it. I can get about 3 pins raking and then I am stuck for the most part. Masters feel a lot more loose inside, and are far easier to rake, also each one of the studs holding the lamination together is exposed outside of the body on the master vs the inset pins. Not sure if that makes a differnce but frankly the Commando lock just seems to be more robust then the masters, and I have cut pounded and smashed my body weight in Masterlocks.

[Josh66]

Where can I get ahold of one of these? Looks fun and interesting. I also like seeing the instructions for shackle replacement.

http://www.commandolock.com/
I plan on picking one or two up soon too.

As for the interchangable shackle, I don't think that will be a huge problem, when you unlock the lock unless you turn the shackle out 180 and turn the key, the issue isn't there. Honestly though I think the concept is more for the military, and if they became common then it wouldn't be a huge issue. I am going to do a huge write up on that lock here in a few days with photos and everything.

Interchangeable shackles are all that uncommon, but none of the locks I have can change the shackle so easily. Not needing any tools other than the key is a plus, IMO.

I think the main purpose behind interchangeable shackles is that if somebody cuts the lock, you don't have to throw the whole thing away - just put a new shackle on it.


Looking forward to hearing more about these!

[Josh66]

Meant 'aren't all that uncommon' in my previous post...

[zeepia]

I was also fortunate enough to get a package from Commando lock company. President Patrick Smith was generous to send me two padlocks to testing, one military and one interchangeable shackle version.

Now I have spent a lot of time with them and found that they are pretty well protected against picking. 5 security pins with an odd feedback. Keyway isn´t that complicated so you can put your picks in it but it sure wasn´t easy. At least for me. This was probably my most awarding picking so far.



Tried raking it with every pick I have, changing tension and I only could get it to a false set.
Then changed to spp and after very many attempts could finally open it for the first time! After that close it and start again... second time it opened after 30 minutes. After ten years I maybe get it open in 2 minutes

At first I used normal tension, tried from up and bottom but finally moved to that double version, worked very well providing a good rotation to the plug. Thanks Josh66!

I also tried to pick it ccw but hadn´t success in it. The key turns that way when you change the shackle so you would think it´s doable.

As mentioned before, the shackle change is made very easy. The newest version has a machined groove to mark the location where the shackle attach, mine had a line made with a marker pen. Worked perfectly though.

Nice line of locks, thank you for the challenge!

[Josh66]

At first I used normal tension, tried from up and bottom but finally moved to that double version, worked very well providing a good rotation to the plug. Thanks Josh66!

I thought that looked familiar.

Glad it worked out for you!

[zeepia]

That other Commando lock, military version, gave me more headache. I don´t know if they have the same core but the feedback is much more difficult. The plug rotates at the beginning a little and it´s too much for the pins to align with the holes. So tensioning this lock is a really careful job.

got it picked

[easy-e]

Well it's been a slow week at work and I finally picked one of my Commando Locks. I've been practicing a lot and getting use to being able to actually feel the feedback from the lock. It took me about 40 seconds and opened first try. The 0.050" pry bar fits perfectly for top or bottom tension. Too bad the rest of my commando locks are at home.

[easy-e]

Also managed to pick it in reverse to remove the shackle!!!