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need to change locks?

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

need to change locks?

Postby ARF-GEF » 21 Nov 2012 13:14

Hi!

A good friend of mine asked for my advice on locks. He had a few break-ins in the apartment block he lives at and he knows that I'm so fascinated by locks so he asked for my opinion. The trouble is I'm not really that much of an expert and even though I told him that, I would like to give him the best advice possible.
That's why I ask for your opinion.
The locksmith I'm in good terms with is really bent on Mul-T-locks so it's not easy to get impartial advice out of him:).( And I don't want to be pushy or disrespectful with him.)
My friend has a wink haus XR6-51 and the main lock is a GEGE ans-2 (the one without the side dimple).
I told him that IMO both are rather decent locks (aren't they? :? ) GEGE is especially hard to pick. But no burglar will pick anyway. (More like drill or rake or snap where I live.)
Doors seem to be sturdy too and they live on the 3rd floor so windows are out. But still he (and his wife :D ) are really concerned.
My locksmith friend recommended a Mul-t-lock interactive. Which I kinda agree with, but if they want something truly secure against I don't want to lie to them and say that the Multi is such an outstandingly great lock.
Normally I can decide for a lock but I really-really want to avoid giving bad advice to them. What if I tell them to buy something and they get broken into in a few weeks...
So here are my (usual) candidates for high-security lock recommendation:
I rather liked the KESO 4000 omega (=2000 with longer patent). I really had a phase in which I fell in love with them. But the downside is the bumping impressioning, right? But I think they are still pretty good so that would be one of my suggestions.
Protec 2 is an awesome lock but (e.g.) the drilling videos out there make me think. (Btw. are protec 1 and 2 pretty much the same just P.2-s are harder to copy?)
I know Evva 3ks is incredibly hard to pick but the burglar won't really pick, anyway and they are the most pricey. IMO they are all an overkill but who am I to say that when I have better lock on my doors than some banks...(To blend in here :lol: )

So the question is is it really sensible to upgrade a Winkhaus XR6-51 and a GEGE ANS2 to any of the candidates? I'm inclined to recommend the protec2 but is there much extra security to be gained?
Thank you very much for your help.:)
To infinity... and beyond!
ARF-GEF
 
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Joined: 26 Oct 2012 11:14
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Re: need to change locks?

Postby GWiens2001 » 21 Nov 2012 13:27

Can the Mul-T-Lock MT5 be bumped? With the sidebar, I am not sure. I've heard that it is a real pain in the donkey to pick. I only mention it because you do not really want to get a lock that can not be serviced by a local locksmith, and you know a locksmith in the area who services MTL. That is why I would not use Abloy locks on my house here in Arizona. The nearest locksmith who sells/services Abloy is quite some distance away.

What lock format does he have? (Deadbolt, deadlatch, euro cylinder, etcetera.)

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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Re: need to change locks?

Postby ARF-GEF » 21 Nov 2012 13:55

Hi Gordon,
Thanks for the swift reply!:)

Servicing the locks are not really that much of issue because we live very close to the capital so all the locks are serviceable. It's just that the locksmith I happen to know is a Multlock fan. In case they just lose the key I have their key so they can ring me up:). So locking out is not a problem either.
I ruled Mul-t-lock out because I tough a modular lock would be better for them for that kind of money. I mean why leave several hundreds of Euros worth of locks and keys if you can take it with you when you move.

They all are euro profile cylinder locks.(but the cylinder is flush with the fittings so hard to snap). The main lock right under the handle is the gege ans2.
The Winkaus is on a kind of a deadlock which is fixed to the internal side of the door. It goes across the door and is in a metal casing and it projects steel bars in both directions to the holes in the wall. I'm not sure what's the right English expression for that.
To infinity... and beyond!
ARF-GEF
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: 26 Oct 2012 11:14
Location: faraway and mythical land of eastern europe:)

Re: need to change locks?

Postby GWiens2001 » 21 Nov 2012 14:10

No matter what kind of lock they put in, if it is the same form factor, I can see no reason not to take it with them and just replace the original lock. Did that with a MIWA deadbolt in the early 90s.

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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Re: need to change locks?

Postby ARF-GEF » 21 Nov 2012 14:24

Indeed. The problem is not with placing the old locks back. The problem comes when they move to a different apartment: They will have a different door and will require a longer/shorter cylinder. Otherwise it won't fit the new door.
If I get them to buy a modular lock, they can take the new cylinder with them since they can lengthen or shorten it any time they want. (And leave the old Winkhaus and Gege lock in the old apartment. With a fixed length cylinder like MT5 they can only be "reused" it if the new door's thickness is exactly the same as the old flat's door's thickness.)
This could save them a lot of money when they get the kid and need a bigger flat.
(I hope that's what you meant. I had some slight trouble understanding what you wrote. You see English is not my first language.)
To infinity... and beyond!
ARF-GEF
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: 26 Oct 2012 11:14
Location: faraway and mythical land of eastern europe:)

Re: need to change locks?

Postby GWiens2001 » 21 Nov 2012 15:11

It seems you understood me well. I also see your concern, and you are wise in suggesting a modular lock for them at this time.

English may not be your first language, but you use it well. :)

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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GWiens2001
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Re: need to change locks?

Postby ARF-GEF » 21 Nov 2012 15:52

Thank you for both of the compliments:)
I have put considerable energy into both matters.

So what do you think about the changing of the locks?
To infinity... and beyond!
ARF-GEF
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: 26 Oct 2012 11:14
Location: faraway and mythical land of eastern europe:)


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