Correct Terminology For These Key Types ??

[Jailer]

What would be the correct terminology for these two key types in locksmithing terms ? I am assuming the first one is a "complex entry bit" design while the second is a "complex lateral bit" design, both for types of warded locks. The first one would be designed simply for a specific shape of entry hole, while the second would be designed for a more complex internal "lateral warding" lock design. I've always had an interest in old European keys of these styles that date back to the 1500s or so. Thanks for any info.

[Jailer]

After posting the above, I read capt.dunc's post that basically answered my questions.

So both are warded lock type keys. But how would you classify these two particular types ? External ward (at the lock entry) and internal ward (inside the lock) perhaps ?

[Solomon]

Hmm, not sure. They're both warded, just the wards act differently. The first one looks like the wards are there to stop the wrong key from being inserted, so you've got wards at the front and empty space in behind them where the bolt is. Key goes in past the wards, then it's free to turn and operate the bolt. Pretty cool, I haven't actually seen a key like that before.

With the second one, the wards are there to prevent any incorrect key from being turned. Unlike the first one, you could insert the wrong key providing the blank matched, but unless the cuts themselves were correct it wouldn't turn. Check this link out if you haven't already, it's cool stuff.

Edit: looks like I didn't read your post properly, you have seen it lol. But yeah, read through it again and you'll get the terminology you're looking for. From what I gather, the first lock is just case wards, and the second one is a combination of partition and pin. So there's your answer, I think. Working with a hangover brain so I'm not putting too much thought into it.

[Squelchtone]

Hi Jailer,

Beautiful old keys you have there. I was just over at antique-locks.com forum and saw someone asking about a similar looking key to your 2nd photo, it is called a Bridge Ward, check out this link and poke around there or become a member and show them these photos, I bet they can ID it by the end of the day! http://www.antique-locks.com/showthread.php/1996-Another-early-key-to-look-at

good luck,
Squelchtone

[Jailer]

The real problem I'm having is with antique key collectors and dealers bunching all of these into the category of "complex bit" style keys. I suppose that would be OK to a point, but there are definite differences in how these keys work in relation to the lock itself, so I'm trying to get the terminology right to separate the differences. I hate to call everything used on warded locks "skeleton keys" and just leave it at that. I also noticed early on in key collecting that it is much easier to determine how a lock is designed internally by looking at the key than it is to determine how the key works by looking at the lock.....or something like that.

There appears to be an awful lot going on inside of the lock this key was made for. Notice all of the bit cut is at the forward end, along with two little protrusions that apparently fit into "something" inside the works. Those protruding pins appear to move something laterally that would not be moved by the other cuts alone. I've never seen another like this, but would love to dissect that lock.......

The second photo down is also of a strange one.