Master Keying 30+ Properties

[Lewis]

I manage 30+ homes and have been mastering the locks where possible. This is as much through necessity as it is me being a hobbyist to be honest, but it is much better to have the one key on my key ring than the carrier bag I was using previously...

Anyway, the master key I used was random cut depths from 1 through to 5. After doing the majority of locks I spoke to a locksmith who said master keys are much easier if cut low numbers, such as 22122, 21212 etc., then all the secondary keys will be much easier to code, lock, whatever, so long as the depths were always 44344, 43434 etc. and above.

The question I have would be whether this is true - once a random set of digits is placed against a pre-set set of digits where that random set has to be a difference of 2 or more to it's corresponding number, does it really matter where those pre-set digits lie, in the range of 1 to 6?

What I'd hate to have to do would be to re-master all the locks if I've made that much of a mess of it; I'd not have thought it would be that bad though? If it works it works, would be my opinion.

That's the first part of my post, the second, partly-related, would be that the problem I'm facing is that I'm getting to the point that I have a carrier bag full of keys that all have at least one depth with only one number difference between it and the master key - i.e. the lock would require master pin #1 to master. Now, I'm loathed to do this as I have heard horror stories of them seizing up older lock, etc. But if it was that bad why would they sell them?!

But, I haven't had to - and am getting to the point where I will have to - put these pins in. Or, I could remove the pin, spring and chamber pin from that hole? Would that be such a terrible idea?

I tried to buy a dremel to cut an extra depth of cut into the subject key but that certainly didn't work! Thought of maybe fixing it to a rigid piece of metal to make my own key cutter but that seems very long winded. Would it be possible to take it to a locksmith and have them cut an extra depth in one of the grooves on the key or is that a big no no?

Sorry this post is a bit rambly I'm extremely tired but have a lot of thoughts going on about how to get this sorted.

Any help would be appreciated. Kindest Regards.

[cledry]

How many thousandths is one depth in the system you are using? If it is at least .025" you can get by with one step systems.

Am I correct that your MK is a random key and you key the locks to whatever key comes with them and this master? If so you are courting trouble. Buy a small system from a locksmith, including cut keys and master. Then go and rekey the locks properly.

[LockDocWa]

Lewis Asked:

"master keys are much easier if cut low numbers, such as 22122, 21212 etc., then all the secondary keys will be much easier to code, lock, whatever, so long as the depths were always 44344, 43434 etc. and above.

The question I have would be whether this is true"

Easier? Of course. You can key the cylinder to the master key, then put the change key in and place master pins on top.
This isn't a recommended practice. I as a professional locksmith would never originate a system like this for a customer.
However, these are your locks and you can do whatever you like.

As to the keys which are 1 cut away from the master key. Any wear in those locks and the
#1 master pin will slip between the plug and housing. If not causing a complete lockout,
You will need to jiggle the key to get it to work. ( PITA )

[Sinifar]

As I have said in many posts, "Master keying is the controlled destruction of security."

Having said that - I can see judging from your posts, that you are not a security professional, nor a locksmith. Just a guess from the numbers you are using, this is a Kwikset lock.

Having a "uniform master" like 22122, is not a good idea, but rather a master should have some high, and some low and some in the middle, like this - 25314. This give a better "set" to the pins as just riffling a key in and out will not "pick the lock".

30 properties is no problem. If you used a master key program to generate your keys, you could get 1000's of combinations, or just a few as needed. This will insure that you won't have "cross key" problems, nor violate the MACS which could cause more problems. If in fact you do have Kwikset, there is also a "7" cut which is .190, and there is NO pin specified for this, this is for MK work only. It fills the pin cell completely, so the top pin sits at the opening point.

Kwikset is a .025 step (two step) system, so there is no danger of using a "1" for a master pin, unless you have flied down the plug to make it work.

If you don't have a key generator, a machine which can make the "first key" - nor a set of depth keys to do so, you should not be trying to do your own master keying work. First keys need to be EXACT and to the factory specs.

Trying to adjust your pins or worse the cylinder by the odd cutting of keys or filing down pins, or the plug to make it work - this will totally destroy shear line and the security of the thing, and WILL cause pins to jam.

MY guess is you got a pin kit off E-bay, and want to do your own work. FINE. But know something about it before you go and do something which could really compromise the security of the lock, and the property.

Tort lawyers would have a field day with this one of something tragic happened due to negligence on the part of the person doing the lock work. As the person responsible for the lock work, you could be held liable for your screwing around with something you don't fully understand, and inadvertently destroyed the total security of the locks.

Sinifar

[2octops]

I would suggest getting a good book that explains the proper techniques of designing a masterkey system as well as a key machine and set of depth keys or a code machine.

The book will teach you what you can and can not do and explain why or why not. Many also have systems included that can be used with many of the most popular keyways on the market.

You can purchase an older duplicator fairly inexpensively and depth keys are cheap. Sometimes you can find dedicated code machines for a particular keyway fairly cheap also. Sure you can file a key by hand using a micrometer and get by, but that is very time consuming and very difficult to get the depth and spacing correct so that all keys work properly.

Also, be extremely careful when designing a system that you are not creating ghost keys or cross keying between locks. This is very easy to do if you are not paying attention and can create a considerable liability to you as a property owner if someone's key fits something it is not supposed to.

[Evan]

@Lewis:

I notice in your posting that you said you "manage" 30+ properties...

Are all of these homes owned by the same person/entity ?

If yes, did you obtain the owner's consent to master key the properties..

Doing this sort of thing with scattered site properties creates all kinds of liability issues and with houses the tenants can defeat your entire "system" with a purchase of new locks at Home Depot, etc...

If you are dead set on having a master key for all of these 30+ locations then you need to use real locks which support your maintaining control such as Arrow Lock's Management Control Deadbolt which requires the SFIC be removed to access the deadbolt's mounting screws...

Having deadbolts with passage knob/lever sets reduces the number of lockout calls, as you either need the key to lock it from the outside or someone is inside the door and can unlock it...

If you are loathed to carry 30+ keys then have you thought of installing key safes/lock boxes at each location to store keys on site ?

~~ Evan

[minifhncc]

After doing the majority of locks I spoke to a locksmith who said master keys are much easier if cut low numbers, such as 22122, 21212 etc., then all the secondary keys will be much easier to code, lock, whatever, so long as the depths were always 44344, 43434 etc. and above.

That locksmith should be shot. That is not a proper way to master key locks.

You need to produce the keys correctly to minimise cross keying etc. It is typically done using a computer program.

[YouLuckyFox]

I would suggest getting a good book that explains the proper techniques of designing a masterkey system as well as a key machine and set of depth keys or a code machine.

I may be in a similar situation as the OP, could anyone recommend some good books or online resources that explain the proper techniques of designing a masterkey system? Thanks!