Solex E5900 SS review

[spoonzor]

This dimple lock has an interesting key that sais "do not duplicate". Luckely key copiers in Thailand usually can't read any English.
The key makes it look like there are 11 pins in the lock.

1 + 4: the real pins (5 of them, there is no pin nr. 6 in the lock although the key makes it look like there could be)
2: some useless holes in the key that don't do anything
3: I thought there would be one or two extra pins here that i would need to set after turning the lock a bit, but after picking the lock it turns out that pin chamber is empty/doesn't do anything.

It is the first dimple lock I ever picked. The pins set very easily, under 3 minutes in my case. Looking at the key I have to guess there are just 3 pin depths available.
The only positive point I could find is the key profile that makes it hard to use a dimple rake, so you have to set the pins one by one.

Over all I was very disappointed by this lock since the 5 holes in the key (2) are just for show, as is the room for the second pin-stack (3).

[Achyfellow]

The same happened to me with the Ezcurra DS-15. There are 5 regular key and driver pins, and then 3 little things over them you can just ignore when picking it since they do nothing. AFAIK the DS10 is the exact same thing without the little upper pins (fgarci will be able to confirm or deny this).

[fgarci03]

@Spoonzor, nice lock and review.
Test this out: Look at the inside of the keyway with a flash light. Play a little with it. Do you see pins on the upper part/lower part or both? Are there pins or ball bearings on the side?

Some keys have dimples just for show, but it might not be the case. Does the key have any dimple on the side of the blade? Maybe that's for passive ball bearings and not pins, so when you pick you just have to leave them alone, but they are actually a security measure to prevent other keys to open the lock.

Nice picking!


@Achyfellow: I'm not sure about the DS-15... From what I've seen I thought it had 6 pins on bottom and 6 tiny pins on top. That's what I usualy find online, but since I've never had one to pick, I can't be sure.
The DS-10 however, does have 5 pins on bottom and on top. It also has a passive ball bearing on the right side of the keyway.
Here's the gutting of the lock: http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic ... ra#p412095

Is it possible that your lock has been disassembled before, and wasn't well assembled?
Man, I need to get a DS-15

[Achyfellow]

@Achyfellow: I'm not sure about the DS-15... From what I've seen I thought it had 6 pins on bottom and 6 tiny pins on top. That's what I usualy find online, but since I've never had one to pick, I can't be sure.
The DS-10 however, does have 5 pins on bottom and on top. It also has a passive ball bearing on the right side of the keyway.
Here's the gutting of the lock: http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic ... ra#p412095

Is it possible that your lock has been disassembled before, and wasn't well assembled?
Man, I need to get a DS-15 [/quote]

I disassembled it myself around two weeks ago. It has been used for a long time but it has never been rekeyed or opened as far as I know (Security in my family is unfortunately "pay and forget until it breaks").

6 key and driver pins (Sorry about the mistake) and 3 of the 6 top chambers with tiny pins of fixed lenght (They have no springs or anything, they are just there, I assume to prevent bumping or something like that). The rest of chambers are empty. Funny thing is, the key has only two cuts for the top pins, a deep one for the positions where pins are used and a 0 one for the positions without pins. There are no bearings, sidebar or any kind of extra security measures, and as you said there are no security pins in it.

My first impression was that key pins pushed those so they helped preventing the plug from rotating, but the key pins on that lock are thinner on the outer part so they barely reach the middle of the keyhole (Same for the tiny pins). Also, the small pins rest just in the shear line by default (With or without any key inserted) and have a rounded top, so in theory you can just ignore them when picking. And I haven't tried bumping it, but it seems that filing down the key so you have a constant deep cut on the top would be more than enough to avoid them too.

I'd post photos but since I migrated to debian I have been unable to make my camera work on my computer :/. You can see the key pins on your review thought, they are the same.

It may be as you say, they are there just for show or to prevent other keys from opening the lock (And I suspect it is the same for OP's lock), but it makes little sense to me.

[fgarci03]

I'd post photos but since I migrated to debian I have been unable to make my camera work on my computer :/

Debian? I sense you really liked having a Raspberry Pi

Anyways, if i remember correctly, the top pins had no springs too. But I do have to pick them in order to open the lock.

(Security in my family is unfortunately "pay and forget until it breaks")

Looks like we're all the same then

Will be nice to see pics when you manage to put the camera working. Never really saw a DS-15 before!

[Achyfellow]

OK nevermind, I just solved it! (No I'm not that guy with the RPi )

Here you have the driver/key pins and the tini things with the key.



Row on the top of the key is for the top small pins, row on the bottom for the standard key pins.

[fgarci03]

Nice one!

Thanks for sharing those pics!


Wait, now I remember, the DS-10 did have springs on the top pins. Tiny ones, but it did. They have probably changed the design from one to another. Can you can those easily?

[GWiens2001]

Those smaller pins look to be the passive pins that were suggested above. They are used for key control - making sure that even if the key pin bits are cut correctly, if the other cuts are not correct, the key still will not turn in the lock.

Good work, glad you figured it out!

Gordon

[spoonzor]

I did shine into the keyway with a bright light and can assure you there is just one row of pins. That can be confirmed by looking at the outside of the lock, where i see only one pinchamber that is big enough for 6 pins (but only 5 are actually in there actually in there). And there is that small pin chamber (nr 3 in the picture at the start of this topic) that doesn't seem to contain anything (i did feel that part with a pick).

If I have some time tomorrow I might take the lock apart and make some pictures. It's a Thai lock, I should not be so surprised that it is kinda 'fake'. I got another dimple lock that was actually cheaper that DOES contain 11 pins (6 top and 5 bottom), so far I managed to set only 3 pins in that lock...

[fgarci03]

Cool!

Show us the picks and the lock brand and model

[mechanical_nightmare]

I noticed that the part of the key pins that contacts the driver pins is wider than the part that contacts the key. I have a KALE dimple lock with the same features.

I understand that the reason is to prevent the key pins from being driven too far into the keyway by spring bias. Can this feature be described as counter-milling? Does it also serve to increase pick resistance? (I can not pick the KALE I mentioned...)

[fgarci03]

Can this feature be described as counter-milling? Does it also serve to increase pick resistance?

Nope. Countermilling is on the walls of the chambers, not on the pins.

It does not increase pick resistence unless you over set these pins. If they can go high enough they could give you a false set when actually, they are overset. Reseting an overset like this is very difficult without reseting all the pins..
But I do believe that you really have to lift them very high to let them catch at that spot, so I don't know if it's a "real threat" anyway!

[mechanical_nightmare]

I see. So the way I understand it, countermilling is similar to a serrated pin in terms of its mechanism of action, but is instead milled into the pin chamber at the plug level. fgacri03, what locks would you recommend to start out with to learn picking serrated pins and counter-milling? I am doing pretty good with spools (Except for ABUS and KALE because of the fine tolerances) and want to give those a try too..

[fgarci03]

I see. So the way I understand it, countermilling is similar to a serrated pin in terms of its mechanism of action, but is instead milled into the pin chamber at the plug level.

Exactly.


For serrated pins I totaly love American Padlocks! They have serrated pins, serrated spools and serrated key pins. Some just have an anti-bump pin, so be sure to ask for one with serrated pins.

If you can also get an assortment of pins for it it's good, because you can progressive pin it with pins of your choice to understand the diferences. I first started with 1 serrated pin and everything else regular, then all serrated, the with serrated spools.

For countermilling, I really wouldn't know. Assa TWINS have countermilling on them, but the real security feature on them is the sidebar.
You could get a cheap lock and thread it with a tap that fits. After that you screw a screw (get it? ) in there to retain the pins and spring and pick it. For what I've heard, spools and counermilling make an evil obstacle


I'm in the process of making one of those for myself, but I'm gonna be busy till the end of the week. Next week I may be able to get back to you on that.

[mechanical_nightmare]

Thank you for the information, fgarci03, I am preparing a shipment of locks from the US to be brought by a traveling friend, so American Padlocks will be on the list too. Sorry for derailing the thread spoonzor, but I was curious Congrats on picking your first dimple lock!

Achyfellow, what is the magnifying glass setup you used in the photo? And how much was it?