Lockpickers NEMESIS...

[Chubby]

Interesting to know what locks there are/or have been, allegedly pick proof! Pushbutton locks are pick proof but can be bypassed by other means, companys like Videx state thier Cyberlock cannot be picked or bypassed, but so did Abus locks.
http://www.videx.com/ac_html/lr_spec/Ex ... PD3030.pdf http://www.videx.com/ac_html/lr_spec/Export_Cylinders/CL-PD3030.pdf

Any suggestions ladies/gentlemen/...

[Jlo]

Hi Chubby,

Yes I agree its interesting to know which locks are pickproof.

I think the magnetic locks such as http://www.evva.com/WelcomeE.htm the MCS - Magnetic-Code-System is pick proof as there is nothing directly to pick.

The 3KS - 3-Curve-System on the same page has 2 side bars and has is very pick resistant although thier is a decoder available from 'Falle'

Abloy Locks I believe are pick proof although can be decoded using a Falle Decoder.

Medeco and Assa V10 lock are near pick proof although their are people who claim to have picked a Medeco lock (Called Chubb Bi Axial lock in the UK)

I thought that Mul-t-lock were pick proof untill I saw Barry the Key pick one. Also saw that it is possible to pick dimple key locks such as Dom and Kabba with a pick and also how to impression a key although you need a key blank which would be difficult to get.

The most secure lock I have found on the internet thought is the DOM Diamant which has 21 rotating disks!!! I Believe Abloy use 11 or 12. Bet it cost a bomb though. Can be viewed at http://www.gbe.co.za/dom/domdiamant.htm

I used to beleive that Abus were pick proof but Falle make an opener for this although I am sure it is difficult to get the tool.

Just my small imput!

Cheers

Jlo

[Zelgadis]

TESA TE5 is an example of pickproof cylinder. (5 pins)

TESA is a spanish company.

Pistol pick or electric pick gun can open it anyway.

[Jlo]

Hi,

Had a look at http://www.tesa.es/main.html for the Tessa TE5 and its security is marked as 1 out of 5 in the PDF catalogue file. It says it has antipick pins (Mushroom pins) but does not say its unpickable.

Cheers


Jlo

[Chubby]

JIo your right about the Tesa TE 5 it was the first practice cylinder that I bought, serrated pins, but with patience and very light tension it will open, very common and good quality cylinder. I also have the TE 5 on my primary door, and a JIS cylinder with four roller bolts(also known as a ¡*#%$&&* Lock!), a incredibly easy lock to pick, however the actual lock mechanism the cylinder is housed in is another matter, very cleverly designed, I know how the lock works, but how to manipulate it via the keyway....? I've been tempted to call out a locksmith on a lockout call just to see how they cope with them. The Abus Granite picklock used by 'Barry the Key' isn't hard to obtain in europe http://www.multipick-service.com/en/start_en.htm although the price tag IS, I imagine that it will soon be U/S as Abus will no doubt slightly change thier locks, from what I can gather they have already done so and the pick cannot be used on newer granite locks. I've no doubt some Brain will be able to bypass the MCS locks & the DOM Diamant in the very near future they probably already have, keep your eye's open for H2K3...

[Jlo]

Will do Chubby!

I am sure what ever man makes man will learn to defeat.

Will be interesting to see the tool for magnetic locks!!! Sure it will be possible to overcome some how.

Cheers

Jlo

[Varjeal]

I'd like to say that pushbutton mechanical locks are not all "pickproof". In fact, when I attended trade school for my second year we practiced "picking" the Unican 1000 and 7000 series pushbutton mechanical locks. Now THAT's a cool feeling to open one of those babies up.

From what I saw at the trade show, a few of the high security locking companies are going to a combination of mechanical AND electronic access with their keys. One particular brand, (I got their brochure and will look at it later), uses electronics so that even if a duplicate key were made, without the electronics the cylinder still won't turn.

'Course, they aren't cheap.

Abloy uses 11 discs....and as of yet I haven't heard of anyone successfully picking an Abloy, Medeco, or the Assa V10. Miwa uses magnets for its pick resistance, but fortunately there are other mechanical defects which makes it possible to bypass the keyway anyways.

There's also Schlage Primus, and the new Medeco 3.

Master Lock has come out with a new higher security keyway that uses a tight keyway, spool pins, and a second shearline that operates two steel ball bearings that must be manipuated. Haven't got any so I haven't tried 'em yet.

Tesa isn't pickproof, they just use really tight keyways and spool pins, as mentioned before.

Also noticed Abus is using a very similar principle to Abloy now in some of their fancier padlocks...I'm going to look into that further.

Check out this list of other locks considered high security.


www.chez.com/montmare/hiseclox.pdf

[Jlo]

Hi Varjeal

Thanks for your post. What is different with the Medeco 3 as I have not been able to find any info on it at their website.

Cheers

Jlo

PS The PDF link does not work but I have been to the web site anyway. Very interesting?

[Varjeal]

Grrr....sorry 'bout the link. I can't spell...hehehe...hope this one works. If it doesn't, I apologize for that.

http://www.chez.com/montmartre/hiseclox.pdf

The Medeco 3 is basically the same as the Medeco Biaxial 'cept they've now added a sidebar similar to th Schlage Everest series. This does a few things, not only does it add pick resistance, but also key control and increases the number of possible "keyways".

[Jlo]

Hi Varjeal


Thanks for reposting the link. I always wanted to know how the ingersol 10 lever lock worked? Its a little out of date as it was in 94 but still a lot of locks are still in production or just been updated. Its a good read.

Cheers

Jlo

[PickPick]

The Ingersoll has been discussed before AFAIK. As for Medeco and Abloy, I've seen both of them picked, I can't remember who did the Abloys but the Medecos were picked by Barry, unfortunately it has been quite some time that I saw him so I haven't been able to try them myself (and they're so hard to get in Germany). There's a commercial tool for DOM Diamant and there are homemade tools for the new version of the Abus plus, I guess I'll make a pick myself during the next weeks. The 3KS has been picked, but with lots of cheating
For pure manipulation resistance I'd trust the EVVA MCS and that's about it.

[maldotcom2]

How many lock making companies do you suppose watch sites like this to see what pickers make of their "new and improved unpickable lock series"

interesting...

[CitySpider]

I'm surprised I didn't see this thread the first time around. Slightly before my time, I think.

Anyway, I wouldn't call pushbutton locks (or any of the other examples) pickproof, any more than I'd call a rock or a computer monitor pickproof. Just not applicable.

[skeleton_keys]

I thought it was funny that Lockmasters is now selling a Medeco "bypass" kit for somewhere over $200, and you know what you get? A little handle with a thin wire coming off it to hold the pins up out of your way, a drill bit to drill out the back of the keyway, and an elongated version of the "snake pick" or "Adams Rite tool" normally used for open-backed cylinders, to reach through and flip the bolt. You could probably get all the things to make that stuff at home for less than $10.

I did heard somewhere that a locksmith had picked the Medeco by "filing down a normal pick to wafer thinness", and after picking the pins to the correct height, they very gently rotated them back and forth with the thinned-out pick, occasionally having to start over, but after much frustration finally getting it. Of course, people say a lot of things.

[David_Parker]

Heyehey, welcome back Skeleton_Keys


-Dave.