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Steel Discus Pins Stuck in Unlock??

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

Steel Discus Pins Stuck in Unlock??

Postby McLinda » 28 Oct 2014 1:54

I'm hoping somebody can help me figure out what caused a relatively new Steel brand discus lock to be stuck in the unlocked pin position.

I went to pick a discus, that I own, and one that I'd never attempted before. I put my pick in, then my wrench, and before I even got a chance to attempt the back pin (because I like to apply tension first) the lock turned for me! Whats more, I can stick a small flat-head (hate the way those locks bend my wrenches) and lock and unlocked it without the key.

Most of the time with these things I have to actually pick it closed (NOT as easy as open for me) because you're not suppose to be able to remove the key until it's locked again so closing it without the key...

Anyway, I know Steel is an off-brand, and I have encountered locks with a stuck pin before, but all of them?? I'm sure there is an obvious explanation that I am missing, but since it is possible, unlikely but possible, that someone else may have played with this particular lock before I got to it; I just thought I'd ask some experts.

Thanks.
Am I the only one who slows down whenever passing the windshield wiper blades isle in Walmart? ;)
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Re: Steel Discus Pins Stuck in Unlock??

Postby Barthel » 30 Oct 2014 5:04

I had some cheap padlocks before where the bitting was exactly the same as the resting position of the Pins, which means all pins are already set to shear line before even entering a key...

Let that be partially the same on your lock, may it be a 4 pinner, 2 in resting position already at the shear line, one very close and one pin stuck ... and there you have a open-without-a-key-lock. Just an assumption.

Can you feel all pins springy in locked position of the lock without any tension wrench in?
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Re: Steel Discus Pins Stuck in Unlock??

Postby McLinda » 2 Nov 2014 21:01

Thanks, that's a good question. To be honest, I was so shocked I only examined the first pin with my pick. I held it up and used my headlamp to look into the keyway while trying to move the first pin. It was stuck. And the others were all in the same position so I assumed they were stuck as well. I will have another look at it though, and see if the other pins move or not.


Thanks again!
Am I the only one who slows down whenever passing the windshield wiper blades isle in Walmart? ;)
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Re: Steel Discus Pins Stuck in Unlock??

Postby nite0wl » 22 Nov 2014 16:02

It is possible that the pinning of your lock is bad enough that the resting position of the pin stacks is at (or nearly at) the shearline but we should examine the possibility that there is some grime, obstruction, etc that is causing the pins to stick at or near the shear position.
To confirm if the pins are stuck or just slow to move from the unlocked position, just use the flat back of a half-diamond pick to raise all of the pin stacks as high as possible and slowly withdraw the pick (keeping the pick level the whole time), you should hear each pin-stack drop back into it's resting position with an audible click. If you only hear some of the pins drop back into place or if one or more pins stop you from raising all of the pins to the full height of the keyway those pins are stuck in place and will need to be freed.
Some WD-40 and some vigorous raking will often free those stuck pins unless there is some significant debris or a broken part (such as a slipped spring which has worked itself between the chamber wall and the pin). You may want to wait a while between doing this and attempting to pick the lock again since the lubrication may make it very difficult to get the pins to bind.
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Re: Steel Discus Pins Stuck in Unlock??

Postby McLinda » 25 Nov 2014 3:38

You're right nite0wl, they were completely stuck. I am not adept at dissembling padlocks but I felt no movement and I always pick each pin as raking is usually what I find myself doing out of frustration.

You brought up a subject though that I am curious about; do you really put WD40 in locks?? Because I have a couple tubes of graphite powder that I usually start with, and while it does end up leaving a mess, black smudges on my face and all, it seems to work perfect for old stiff pins. I love that stuff, I don't even know what it's real purpose is suppose to be for, other than lubeing locks.

I have been tempted to use wd40 but I am a very messy girl and there is no way I will be able to avoid slipping around on it, dropping my picks and wrenches, etc. Do you use it for cleaning purposes only, or as a picking aide as well?
Am I the only one who slows down whenever passing the windshield wiper blades isle in Walmart? ;)
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Re: Steel Discus Pins Stuck in Unlock??

Postby nite0wl » 25 Nov 2014 10:59

McLinda wrote:You're right nite0wl, they were completely stuck. I am not adept at dissembling padlocks but I felt no movement and I always pick each pin as raking is usually what I find myself doing out of frustration.


Unless you have one of the handful of 'rekeyable' or otherwise serviceable discus padlocks these locks are usually not able to be disassembled (at least in a way that allows them to be reassembled).

McLinda wrote:You brought up a subject though that I am curious about; do you really put WD40 in locks?? Because I have a couple tubes of graphite powder that I usually start with, and while it does end up leaving a mess, black smudges on my face and all, it seems to work perfect for old stiff pins. I love that stuff, I don't even know what it's real purpose is suppose to be for, other than lubeing locks.

I have been tempted to use wd40 but I am a very messy girl and there is no way I will be able to avoid slipping around on it, dropping my picks and wrenches, etc. Do you use it for cleaning purposes only, or as a picking aide as well?

Powder (of flake) graphite is used as a 'dry' lubricant on many types of mechanical devices where a 'wet' lubricant like grease or oil would be likely to attract or trap debris which could damage the mechanism. Locks are probably the most common use for graphite (at least in consumer-facing applications) especially as 'self-lubricating' materials have become common in manufacturing. The downside to using graphite is that if there are other lubricants present (grease or oil) or if the lock gets damp for some reason, the graphite can clump and cause obstructions. I personally prefer to use a PTFE lubricant specifically sold for use on locks (Master Lock and Abus both sell their own version and the same basic product can be found with more generic brands) it comes in both large aerosol-cans and small pen-sized applicator tubes, over this lubricant dries into a fine film which lubricates things nicely.

Before using a chemical cleaning process simply banging the lock on a table or hard surface (preferably trying to line the lock up so that the pin stacks are aligned with your axis of motion) can dislodge stuck pins and free up some of the debris which may be causing the pins to stick. Be careful about doing this with master-keyed locks as smaller mastering pins and wafers may slip or flip under this type of shock.

I primarily use WD40 as a cleaner when dust, grease, and debris have jammed up a lock (although every American Lock padlock I own gets this treatment as soon as I get it because of the factory applied grease they use). The process is messy so I usually do this in a sink or bucket. To start, find a small container large enough to fit the lock and get plenty of WD40. Put the lock into the container and use the small straw that comes with the WD40 to spray into the keyway, keep spraying even when foam comes out of the keyway and WD40 runs out of the drain holes. Hopefully you will see some of the WD40 that is running out of the back of the lock is now turning dark brown or black, this is good as the discoloration is the old grease and dirt being dissolved and carried away. I like to let the WD40 soak into the lock for a little while before trying to use a rake to work the WD40 into the harder to reach spaces of the pin stacks (just a standard raking motion with no tension while holding the lock pins-down). Do this a couple of times until the WD40 that comes out is no longer noticeably discolored (and hopefully the pins have begun to move again). After this I will usually use rubbing alcohol, turpentine or acetone to remove the WD40 (the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors forum has a useful thread on this http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?53515-Removing-WD40-remains-from-a-clock-movement-using-Thinners-like-Turpentine-Spirits) and then flush the lock thoroughly with water before leaving it to dry (if the lock can't be disassembled leave the lock in a warm, dry place and periodically work the pins with a rake and the plug and shackle/tail with tension tools or your fingers as appropriate; this process can take a while). Ideally when you finish washing and rinsing the lock there so be no noticeable smell of any of the cleaning chemicals or WD40 (if there is, keep washing and rinsing until it is gone), and the pins should be moving again. Once you are sure that the lock is completely dry you can return to applying you normal lubricant of choice.

If even after this the pins are still stuck tight it is likely that the defect is being caused by severe wear or physical damage to the mechanism. This can only be corrected by full dis-assembly of the lock cylinder to inspect and remove damaged parts or exceptionally large non-soluble (stuff that won't dissolve, like broken springs and metal spall) debris.

I know this was a bit long winded but I hope it helps.
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