Lock Kill is an interesting idea but seems easier to have extra master keyed locks around rather than wasting the money and eventually drilling a lock. Anyone see a practical use for it or seen one in use?
Last edited by Squelchtone on 2 Dec 2014 2:03, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:fixed your link, replaced broken [url] tags with [youtube] tags.
I agree that in an apartment scenario it would make much more sense to have spare locks on hand. Then you can have the old lock re-keyed and re-use it. In an apartment scenario the only time these should be used is if the person in charge has no clue how to change a lock themselves and they need to disable the lock until the locksmith comes. Another use which sparrows advertises is by police, military, and emergency services in order to lock down an area quick during an emergency.
I actually had no idea what "practical" purpose these were intended for aside from police and military uses until I saw this video a while back, and even then the landlord idea seems a bit sketchy. Seems rather like a "tacticool" thing that someone would get just to complete their survival kit that they'll never use. I'd think they'd be far more likely to be used for vandalism than anything else... But I guess that's why they have a price tag of $20!
I could see it used in the case of a small time landlord during an eviction. Landlord may not be a handy man and may not have time or spare locks to swap out and the tenant may only be gone for a few minutes to a corner store, so post the eviction notice and deny entry by putting that special key into the lock and breaking it off. Make arrangements to get personal stuff after some of the back rent has been paid up.
Oh I admit that there is a legitimate use for them, but I'm not sure how tuned in the landlord/property management population is to a youtube channel like ITS Tactical (but as purely a hobbyist and not a landlord, maybe there are a lot that I don't know about!). Also as a hobbyist, I can see that a lot of the items for sale from these various suppliers are of questionable value to most people. I'll admit that I've been tempted to get something that I have no need for just because I think it's cool (like a mechanical pick-gun), but the Lock Kill really seems to go even beyond that. Maybe I'm just being a grumpy old man, but these seem like purely destructive devices that offer no value to the hobbyist picking community. Obviously there are professional locksmiths and landlords within the ranks of this website and the customers of the various suppliers who might be interested in these, but there are plenty of other more mundane hardware items like door-closers and so forth that would also be of interest to them and I don't see ITS Tactical going and doing reviews of them because they don't make the average person think "man how cool would I be if I had some of those!" There is really a blurred line between what is cool and what is practical or reasonable to own, especially for someone like myself who is just into picking as a hobby, but the Lock Kill and its advertising really seem to toe that line. Personally, for myself, and I suspect the upstanding hobbyist picker community at large, I think it would be wise to maintain a certain distance from items like this. But again, maybe I'm just being a grump making a big deal out of nothing.
Wow, repeating "as a hobbyist..." over and over, I sound like one of those people who start every sentence with "Well I'm not a racist, but..."
I don't know what your laws are there but here that would be definite violation of landlord tenant laws.
At $20 they are ridiculous for something that can be made with a key blank, that probably costs a buck, and a file in a couple of minutes.
I can't think of any actual use other than vandalism since it can't be removed without destroying the lock. In pretty much any scenario that I can imagine the person locked out would just kick in or crowbar the door.
If you can think up a use it would be just as easy to cut an inch off the tip of a key, you could even use a file to put a slant on the remainder and make two killers. Push it into the keyway past the first pin and the lock is disabled until it is removed by a locksmith with an extractor without destroying the lock.
I made some of these with some bad cut keys, I have not found a real use for the but I made them so I can use a broken key extractor to get them out (and the keys were waste anyways). If I ever find a legitimate use for them I would be surprised.
Maybe in the zombie apocalypse or in a SERE situation, both extreme, but might buy a little time. I am sure this could be made out of and existing key, no need to even make it out of a good blank.
Forestfire1776 wrote:Maybe in the zombie apocalypse or in a SERE situation, both extreme, but might buy a little time. I am sure this could be made out of and existing key, no need to even make it out of a good blank.
Those sorts of scenarios seem to be the core of the appropriate uses for these sorts of devices, as far as working locks are concerned. I've had a least a couple of instances of local hobby pickers showing me locks they have inadvertently done this to while practicing bumping or impressioning. I can certainly see a use for this sort of device in some types of secure facilities in scenarios like being besieged by hostile mobs and having to protect sensitive equipment or documents but I would hope those sorts of facilities don't use SC1 and Kw1 keyed locks for their sensitive areas. Using these devices also implicitly assumes that the lock is the weakpoint in the building's security; an attacker who has no reservations about destructive entry won't be stopped or even notably slowed by a jammed lock versus one they don't have a key for.
As for the proposed use by small landlords in evictions and lockouts, I am not a lawyer but, it seems to me that in situations where these would be useful it would either violate tenant's rights or be a more expensive equivalent of getting the local sheriff/marshal/other local civil judgement enforcement agency to enforce a legal lockout or eviction.
The concept is interesting but in the end it really is just taking the concept of MACS violation in key cutting to an extreme. A couple minutes with the appropriate blank and a Dremel can do the same job and historically vandals would use combinations of all sorts of cheap adhesives and easily worked materials to achieve the same end, that is preventing a lock from being operated by the appropriate keys.
Forestfire1776 wrote:Maybe in the zombie apocalypse or in a SERE situation, both extreme, but might buy a little time. I am sure this could be made out of and existing key, no need to even make it out of a good blank.
Those sorts of scenarios seem to be the core of the appropriate uses for these sorts of devices, as far as working locks are concerned. I've had a least a couple of instances of local hobby pickers showing me locks they have inadvertently done this to while practicing bumping or impressioning. I can certainly see a use for this sort of device in some types of secure facilities in scenarios like being besieged by hostile mobs and having to protect sensitive equipment or documents but I would hope those sorts of facilities don't use SC1 and Kw1 keyed locks for their sensitive areas. Using these devices also implicitly assumes that the lock is the weakpoint in the building's security; an attacker who has no reservations about destructive entry won't be stopped or even notably slowed by a jammed lock versus one they don't have a key for.
As for the proposed use by small landlords in evictions and lockouts, I am not a lawyer but, it seems to me that in situations where these would be useful it would either violate tenant's rights or be a more expensive equivalent of getting the local sheriff/marshal/other local civil judgement enforcement agency to enforce a legal lockout or eviction.
The concept is interesting but in the end it really is just taking the concept of MACS violation in key cutting to an extreme. A couple minutes with the appropriate blank and a Dremel can do the same job and historically vandals would use combinations of all sorts of cheap adhesives and easily worked materials to achieve the same end, that is preventing a lock from being operated by the appropriate keys.
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I couldn't see it in the thread yet.
These lock kill devices can be defeated with a Weiser shim, or similar piece of metal, along with a broken key extractor. Shim holds up the pins while the extractor removes it. You just need to cut a slope on the end of the shim so when you insert it, it will lift the pins as it reaches them. They're fairly thin at .008" so there is room in most keyways to insert it alongside the key.
Another stupid thing somebody discovered. LIKE this is NEW ???
Did you ever hear of LOCK OUT KEYS?
Some call them "witch keys" -- what it is is a two part key. The blade has the hook, like the key shown. THEN all the way down the blade / blank it is milled off at the "9" depth. It usually has a small flag or stub sticking out at the end, which sticks out of the lock. The second key is milled from the bottom, taking up the missing space, and it nests within the lock out key bottom, making a second part of this unit. This part slides onto the bottom part, and grabbing the stub or tail you can extract the lock out key.
WE make a variation of this in I make the two part key, and put a small "nub" in the top part and a corresponding mortise pocket in the bottom. Now there is no tail or nub sticking out of the lock. To work this one, insert the lock out part into the lock, and the thing holds in place. The tenant or who ever you are locking out can't take a pliers and try to pull the thing out. YOUR top part is now the secret. Insert it into the keyway, all the way down to the extractor pin, then push up a bit, get the extractor to go in and lock onto the mortise pocket on the lower part. Push down and pull back -- the lock out key comes out easily.
Ask any locksmith about how this works, I have one on my web site on page 2, to see what it looks like. (http://www.nwlock.biz) IT is on the second page. Not the landing page.
Just more stuff which somebody discovered and OH WOW LOOKIE HERE!! Old news to old hands. Love it when kids discover something they think is the newest thing in the universe, and it is just the face that they haven't been around the block enough times.
In that same section is a "B B Binks" cylinder. You want a mind blower - try how that one works. Yup we make them here in the shop.
Sinifar
The early bird may get the worm, but it is the second mouse which gets the cheese! The only easy day was yesterday. Celebrating my 50th year in the trade!
I used to catch my Dad making these keys, after he received a bad check from a former client. His were usually sized to fit whatever automobile he had last worked on. In particular I recall a special 4-key set he last made to fit an older cadillac deville, Idk if he ever actually felt the need to use the cadillac keys, but I guarantee he woulda felt like his revenge was complete had he fixed their trunk, both doors and the ignition. These keys are not easy or even possible to remove if you cut them so the head twists off on the slotter, simply cut them about the 4th pin back on both sides, almost all the way through, place the key almost all the way into the lock and give it a twist. Then push the rest of the key into the keyhole, so that 4th pin falls behind it. Very hard to remove from any quality lock, without a drill that is.
The landlord issue addressed earlier in the post can cost them damage too. If the eviction process is not fully completed it is not illegal to kick your own door in to gain entry into your home. You may not get your security deposit back but the landlord also doesn't get their original satisfaction either.
