Corbin Emhart

[Asoamylacetate]

I just got one of these and I have no idea how anyone could pick them. There has to be something I am missing here because it is pretty hard. Anyone got any tips on getting these locks?

Thanks in advance

[averagejoe]

These have interlocking pins. They actually latch together and have to be rotated correctly. You need to be careful or you could rotate one of the pins with the cylinder turned and then be unable to lock it again.

http://lockwiki.com/index.php/File:Corbin_Emhart_pins_all.jpg

[Tighran]

You need to be careful or you could rotate one of the pins with the cylinder turned and then be unable to lock it again.

I was aware of how they worked, but I didn't realize this... does the bible or housing not have grooves to hold them in place? I suppose it shouldn't technically be necessary as the correct key should hold the key pins in place, though I wonder if it could still happen in normal use. Were they ever known to have reliability issues?
I've been looking for one for a while now, but short of a salesperson/demo factory cutaway set on ebay for about $500 I haven't seen much...

[Squelchtone]

You need to be careful or you could rotate one of the pins with the cylinder turned and then be unable to lock it again.

I was aware of how they worked, but I didn't realize this... does the bible or housing not have grooves to hold them in place? I suppose it shouldn't technically be necessary as the correct key should hold the key pins in place, though I wonder if it could still happen in normal use. Were they ever known to have reliability issues?
I've been looking for one for a while now, but short of a salesperson/demo factory cutaway set on ebay for about $500 I haven't seen much...

you'll soon have one, uncle Squelchtone is working on it...

[cj101]

Here you can find some info and pictures on the Emhart lock:
https://sites.google.com/site/agentddr999/corbinemhart

The grooves around the core held up the pins in the right rotation, so they can engage again, when turning the key and relocking.
If you pick the lock. however, the housing pins could loose the correct rotation when rotating above the key (which itselfs has grooves to maintain rotation). Then they could in theory not reengage. However, I read on some page dedicated on the lock, that putting in and out any key (or picking tool) several times, would rotate the pin properly again and they would relock normaly. Also, if you you have a close look at pictures,

I would speculate, that disengaged pins will still work correctly with the pins, albeit at much lower security, as now, the housing pin will rest on top the core pin and can be brought easily to the shearline as no longer any rotation is requires. Also, the correct key should operate a lock with disengaged pins.

The locks didn't had any technical problem, but was sued out of the market by Medeco company (see High Security Locks, an encyclopedic reference for more info).

[Asoamylacetate]

Thanks so much guys

[ggpaintballer]

Couldn't you just scrub the heck out of it and the springs would push the driver pins back into the tops of the keypins?

[Tighran]

Those pictures show that the plug has a groove for the driver pins to sit in, but I wasn't sure if the bible or housing continued the the shape of the driver pins to engage and hold on to the key pins. That would be pretty costly though and now that I think about it... it would make it impossible to remove or insert the plug, so... I suppose that's not the case!

As for raking or scrubbing it, as with so many things I suppose it would depend on the tolerances.

[averagejoe]

Here you can find some info and pictures on the Emhart lock:
https://sites.google.com/site/agentddr999/corbinemhart

The grooves around the core held up the pins in the right rotation, so they can engage again, when turning the key and relocking.
If you pick the lock. however, the housing pins could loose the correct rotation when rotating above the key (which itselfs has grooves to maintain rotation). Then they could in theory not reengage. However, I read on some page dedicated on the lock, that putting in and out any key (or picking tool) several times, would rotate the pin properly again and they would relock normaly. Also, if you you have a close look at pictures,

I would speculate, that disengaged pins will still work correctly with the pins, albeit at much lower security, as now, the housing pin will rest on top the core pin and can be brought easily to the shearline as no longer any rotation is requires. Also, the correct key should operate a lock with disengaged pins.

The locks didn't had any technical problem, but was sued out of the market by Medeco company (see High Security Locks, an encyclopedic reference for more info).

No, if your rotate the bottom pins while the plug is turned they WILL NOT go back together or on top of each other.

Those pictures show that the plug has a groove for the driver pins to sit in, but I wasn't sure if the bible or housing continued the the shape of the driver pins to engage and hold on to the key pins. That would be pretty costly though and now that I think about it... it would make it impossible to remove or insert the plug, so... I suppose that's not the case!

As for raking or scrubbing it, as with so many things I suppose it would depend on the tolerances.

Nope, there is nothing to hold the bottom pins in place except for the right key. And yes, if you want to take one of these apart you need to take the top cap off and remove the pins first.

[cj101]

No, if your rotate the bottom pins while the plug is turned they WILL NOT go back together or on top of each other.

Not for all core pin lengths, this is possible, but for shallow key cuts it is. Unfortunately, I cannot upload an image here, so I have to explain in words:

If you pick the lock, with the core downside (so the housing pins are placed above) - the pins are engaged before picking-, the housing pin will retain in the groove during the rotation of the plug. After a full rotation of the plug, the core pins will have fallen due to gravity (if the housing pins rest above the others, of course). Then there will be a gap, were the housing pin can leave the groove of the plug and return to the pin chamber with the core pin beneath. In this case, the pins won't engage again.

[Squelchtone]

No, if your rotate the bottom pins while the plug is turned they WILL NOT go back together or on top of each other.

Not for all core pin lengths, this is possible, but for shallow key cuts it is. Unfortunately, I cannot upload an image here, so I have to explain in words:

If you pick the lock, with the core downside (so the housing pins are placed above) - the pins are engaged before picking-, the housing pin will retain in the groove during the rotation of the plug. After a full rotation of the plug, the core pins will have fallen due to gravity (if the housing pins rest above the others, of course). Then there will be a gap, were the housing pin can leave the groove of the plug and return to the pin chamber with the core pin beneath. In this case, the pins won't engage again.

You can upload pics to http://imgur.com or http://tinypic.com and then Copy/Paste here use the forum's [IMG] tags to show the pics.

[cj101]

Thank you for the tip.

Here is the image:


As you can see, the core pin has fallen due to gravity and will not hinder the housing pin of reentering the pin bore again. So this housing pin will now rest on top of the core pin. It cannot enter the core pin, however, due to the special milling, whcih normally connect these two pins.