Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.
by lockkiller1984 » 7 Feb 2015 6:13
I am interested what you guys think. how often do high security locations have to change there lock keeping op with the techniques of attack etc. because what is new in 2005 is not new and safe in 2015 . Interested how long a lock is used and are they aware of this. or do they just buy a lock that is the top in safety in 2005 and then leave it like 10 years.
Also do you think locks are over complicated , because 99 procent of the people with bad intentions just use a crowbar or something like that. Do locks evolve to fast , It looks like the company's are making lock just harder for the hobby lockpicker.hahhaa
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by 2octops » 7 Feb 2015 7:48
Industry standards suggest that the average useful lifespan of locking hardware is 15-20 years.
This is for commercial applications and is a guide used by many industries when they are planning budgets on remodeling facilities.
As far as increasing security as it evolves with time, that is typically on an as needed basis depending on the individual customer. I've seen many access control systems from the 80's still in place and doing exactly what they were designed to do.
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by bioggy » 7 Feb 2015 15:44
Well in the UK I have come across cylinders that have been in for about 20 years still working but i changed one that has been in 5 years but used so much it needs changing but the internals of the locks are fine it is usually the thrower.
Recently I serviced a padlock with a Evva DSI i think cylinder in it all master keyed and it has been serviced in 10 years there is nothing at all wrong with the cylinder works great so does the shackles but so does all the other locks on the building.
I think if you got a pane window and a old lock on the door, their going to break the window. If a door is wood and falling apart or rotted doesn't matter on the lock they will kick it through.
Security is only secure as the environment is, a lock should represent the security needed.
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by Snowblind » 7 Feb 2015 19:17
I think it really depends on how the lock is designed and it's quality. The industry is responsive about new developments in attempts to defeat them. I noticed newer padlocks are almost always of a design that is shim-proof now and most have some token attempt at protecting against bumping.
That said, it seems like Masterlock and Chinese-based locks are increasing their market share and the quality of locks against lockpicking is really decreasing, not getting better. I believe the industry doesn't see lockpicking as a security concern worth addressing and they focus designs on destructive entry and the popularization of high-school kid stuff like shimming and bumping.
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by peterwn » 8 Feb 2015 21:39
lockkiller1984 wrote:I am interested what you guys think. how often do high security locations have to change there lock keeping op with the techniques of attack etc.
The expiry of design patents (aka registered designs) and utility patents on keyways could be an influencing factor. Lockwood, Australia established a series of surety keyways in the 1960's and the design registration ran out in the 1980's. Lockwood tried to claim that the keyway profiles were covered by copyright but the court did not accept that. Most of the keyways were so common that after market key blank makers produced them (at least they produced the appropriate profiles and not the master profile). Anyone still using these keyways should seriously consider updating. Seems that with computer controlled machining, broaches and milling cutters can be produced more cheaply than in the past so there is now a wider range of 'restricted' keyways that the after market manufacturers cannot be bothered with them, so they seem safe despite legal protection expiring.
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by Ethanuel » 9 Feb 2015 3:56
I believe it really depends upon the quality of the lock as said already....high quality padlock go on for a long time..also the type of lock matters. In my experience, combination locks, due to having many interior moving parts might not last long in comparison to a key type padlock...
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by dll932 » 12 Feb 2015 12:42
In terms of operational longevity, I have worked on locks that were more than 100 years old and still in use and serviceable.
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by nite0wl » 12 Feb 2015 13:52
In terms of basic mechanical soundness, modern locks are typically rated for 10-20 years of use (for a given amount of use in a specific environment, this is why there are BHMA ratings). A well made lock can remain operable for far longer than that (I have lived in homes where interior locks installed some time around the 1860s and still worked reliably and have 100+ year old padlocks that still work pretty well) depending of course on where it is used and how it is used (the more hostile the environment and the heavier the use, the shorter it's useful life will be).
As for "high security locations", that can very much depend on exactly how you define those. To my mind, a facility that needs extremely high levels of access control and and intrusion prevention should, in principle, replace the mechanical locks every time the specific lock design is discovered to be compromised or the key profile leaves patent protection (since that is the basis of key control). All of this is really dictated by the facility's threat model. The threat model for my home, is different from the threat model of my luggage at a security conference, which is different from the threat model of my luggage on vacation, which is different from the threat model of Lawrence Livermore National Labs, and so on (hopefully you get the idea). Replacing a cylinder or group of cylinders because of a lost/stolen key is much more common than a particular design being completely compromised. A truely "high security location" also should be employing layers of security that cannot be compromised by the possession of a single key or knowledge of an attack on a specific model/design of lock (monitored CCTV, foot and vehicle patrols, protection against forced entry, multiple types of locking and access control systems, etc). If someone can enter your facility with nothing put a pick set and a smile, you are not high security.
Like any form of security though you have to balance your policy and physical access controls with the needs of the organization.
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by rphillips52 » 2 Mar 2015 11:15
The Bank of England is still using some of the locks as supplied by Hobbs & Co in the second half of the 19C - but few other users keep such tight key control. There are several Samuel Wilkes 'Cavalier locks' from the late 17C still in service. There are also some locks from the 13C still in service, such as Albury church in Surrey, from 1240. Numerous early Bramah cabinet locks are still in service on antiques.
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by deolslyfox » 2 Mar 2015 12:41
Physical life has to do with the environment and maintence that the lock is subject to.
Technology is constantly evolving, but there are few (CLC and PACLOCK) who really seem to be trying to learn from the locksport community and improve their products.
As long as a lock is physically operable, has a reasonable (6 security pins) pin-up and is used in a well managed key control program, I don't see any "life liimits" for that particular unit.
If site physical security needs change, new rules may make the lock unacceptable, but that can happen with new technology as well. EG: Locks on the shelf that were never installed = no longer acceptable.
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by lockkiller1984 » 3 Mar 2015 9:35
thanks guys for your replys
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