Removing a SFIC Core

[MrAnybody]

I have a zero bitted PL4001 Series Kryponite padlock with a Schlage SFIC core. I have 2 zero bitted keys and no control key. Key profile is 'EF'.





I want to pin it up, and cut the keys. But I'm having trouble removing the core.

The way I understand it, I have to hit a 7th pin or protrusion at the back of the keyway to get the core to out.

With the key inserted (or picked) the plug rotates 90 counter-clockwise, as well as the clockwise to open. So I'm assuming I need the counter-clockwise position to extract the core. Would that be correct? Or will the core remove regardless of the position of the plug when I nail the pin?

I'm still unsure if I'm in contact with the control pin at the back of the keyway, even though it's easy enough to count back the 6 pins and then focus behind the 6th.

And even if I am in contact with the control pin, I'm having trouble finding a way to manipulate the plug to put the necessary pressure on (what could be) the pin, and also the pressure needed to bring out the core. Any tips on that? Anyone got any tool mods to help out with that? I've been looking at the form of what I think is the control key to see if I'm in the right direction.

Do I need counter-clockwise rotational force, as well as the above? I'm thinking not, but just want to confirm.

I'm also assuming this would be the correct form of control key. Am I right?



Would much appreciate a hand on this. I've not dealt with a SFIC before.

Need help on:
Position of plug for it to be removed.
Any tips on identifying the control pin.
Any tips on manipulating the core to remove it.
Any tool mods to do the above.
Counter-clockwise pressure to remove core or not.
Confirmation on the form of the control key.

[billdeserthills]

The control pin is located where a 7th pin would be at and is cut to a #8 depth. I take a 6 pin length key and trim the shoulder back, to make it a 7 pin key, cut a working key on it and add the #8 cut at the end. You will likely also need to extend the millings of the key, in order for it to go all the way into your lock.
Far as the position of the lock, it only turns a very small amount to the right then the core should pull out in your hand. Unfortunately sometimes making your own control key isn't as easy as it might seem, and you'll wind up letting gravity help while you try to shake the core out.

[MrAnybody]

EDIT to original post:

Brain fart means I typed SFIC when I should have typed FSIC

Many thanks to jeffmoss for pointing that out.

[GWiens2001]

Thought it was a 6 depth for control. And it turns clockwise.

Gordon

[jeffmoss26]

I just checked and GW is right. Control is a #6 depth and the key turns clockwise.

[billdeserthills]

I just checked and GW is right. Control is a #6 depth and the key turns clockwise.

Well that explains all the additional cussing I have had to add to my core removal, over the years

[Raymond]

SFIC - LFIC
Small Large Format Interchangeable Core
Small is for Best/Falcon style cores and key blanks.
Large is for full sized standard locks and key blanks.

Suggestion on the method for someone who hasn't made a conrol key yet.

Start by cutting the #6 depth in space 6 of a 6-pin blank.

Then cut the top shoulder back by an amount equal to about one space. More than one space will cause it to not work as the key jams up in the back of the lock. I usually just duplicate a blank that I have slid back in the key machine vise the width of one space.
You can remove all of the bottom shoulder back to where the grooves start.

Use the new top shoulder to duplicate your original working key onto your prepared blank. Try to remember not to let the cutter slide down the tip ramp and destroy your #6 control cut.

With a "0" bitted lock you can probably pick it open. Use a curved pick with the curve down away from the pins. Just make sure your pick is all the way back to the 7th space before applying turning pressure. When the core turns you will have to carefully hold it turned and use something else to pull outward while keeping the plug turned. If it opens the lock you probably missed the control pin. The plug should stop before opening. It's kind of a juggle but it can be done.

Even with a "0" bitted lock it is worth the effort to make the control key blank as you can recut it when you pin up the core.

[nick08037]

great info from all who have responded, I will try to contribute what I can

http://i.imgur.com/oJvOmLe.jpg

Need help on:
Position of plug for it to be removed. - start from locked position turn clockwise
Any tips on identifying the control pin. - control pin location in the plug extends beyond the bible to a ring just before the tail piece
Any tips on manipulating the core to remove it. - once you pick the key pins you cannot let the plug turn before picking the control pin
Any tool mods to do the above. - I have none
Counter-clockwise pressure to remove core or not. - clockwise only
Confirmation on the form of the control key. - your example is correct see attached photo, sorry I needed to cover bitting it is a working key

[nick08037]

14 photos of the Schlage FSIC showing control key mechanism, posted to Imgur album

http://imgur.com/a/k02Tk?gallery#0

[jeffmoss26]

I just checked and GW is right. Control is a #6 depth and the key turns clockwise.

Well that explains all the additional cussing I have had to add to my core removal, over the years

[billdeserthills]

I just checked and GW is right. Control is a #6 depth and the key turns clockwise.

Well that explains all the additional cussing I have had to add to my core removal, over the years

Honestly, I have taken quite a few apart with a #8 cut on the end of my core key,
I will give the #6 cut a try next time

[MrAnybody]

Huge thanks for all your help, guys. All is sorted.



Very nice to do, since a FSIC is not something we come across in European locks.

To confirm the really cool advice in the above posts, the FSIC is secured in the padlock body by the pin you can see at the back of the core housing. This is withdrawn back into the core by putting pressure on a 7th pin (if it's pinned up as a 6 pin) that sits at the back of the keyway.

Normally, this would be done with a longer Control Key that has a extra cut. This cut (a 6 cut) is the same regardless of the bitting on the key. It's pre-cut on blanks. When the Control Key (which also has the correct regular bitting) is turned clockwise about 20 degrees, the securing pin on the side of the core is withdraw back into the core, and the core can be removed.



There was no Control key with this one like you can see above.



I used the zero bitted key to measure the length of 6 spacings of the key. You can see above I put a piece of tape to show me the correct length from the 6th cut to key shoulder. With that, the 6 zero bitted pins can be set at the shearline with the underside of the pick, and the Control Pin can be pressed with the curve of the hook. It took a bit of massaging to get it at the right depth, but it worked well.

Now repinning can be done no worries.

Huge thanks for your help guys.

[GWiens2001]

Glad you got it, good sir. We appreciate you letting us know the results. You have earned a cuppa.

Gordon

[cledry]

You don't really even need to cut the shoulder back a complete cut, I often just do about half a space and it still works. BTW you can make a control bump key and remove cores, it is tricky getting your timing right but it does work. You don't need to cut the millings on the key back. Also you can cut an ordinary Everest key into a control key by using the half space method, the finger pin will still work.