Abus 83/50 - Whoops! I Guess This is My New Goal Lock...

[Syl]

I just got this new 83/50 from Ebay. It's rekeyable and comes in a couple different common core styles. I chose the Kwikset core with a pin kit and a blank key. The lock came keyed all zeros so the blank would work. It also came with an extra spool driver and spring to set it up in a 6-pin configuration.

I had been thinking that I would pin the lock progressively harder to ramp the difficulty as my skills compensated.

I also got some Schlage cylinders yesterday, which I had been working on until late last night. I wanted to get to bed, but I was excited to check out the Abus too. I've never played with pinning a lock before.

So, in my groggy bedtime haze, I proceed to take the Abus apart. Fascinating. This is really cool. I dump the zero pins and take one of each height, 1-6, and randomly place them in the stacks. Yeah, I also filled the 6th stack using the spool and spring they supplied. I'm not sure what I was thinking, but I popped the core back in, screwed it in and SNAP! closed that sucker. I didn't write down or even attempt to remember where I put each pin.

So, here's my new goal lock!



I have two questions about this lock that I couldn't find while searching.

First, the spring that they included for the sixth stack feels considerably more crunchy and stiff than the other springs. When I manipulate that stack with a pick, even without any tension at all, it creaks and jumps around. It's very difficult to get it to compress gently or without large jumps from high to low. Same for letting it decompress gently. I attenuate pressure in the slowest possible way, but it seems to catch and then spring downward quickly. Is this normal with springs that are added on as an extra? Did I just get a crappy spring?

Second, does anyone know whether there are any security pins in this lock other than the one that I put in? I didn't know how to easily take a look at the drivers, so I didn't want to mess with trying to get them all back in. Would it matter that it's a Kwikset core, or do they include them regardless of which core type you choose?

EDIT: Nevermind this next paragraph. I'm leaving it in for context, but I remembered that it isn't true.
Crap. I just realized what my first issue probably is. If I never looked at the drivers, how could I have properly installed the spring and spool in that sixth stack? I think what I did is stuff them into the hole where I was sticking the other key pins. I guess I figured that they would pop up into the correct location once it was aligned with them, but I really have no clue what I was thinking. Now I'm thinking I might have permanently made it unopenable. What do you guys think? Did I just learn my first hard lesson in pinning locks?

Thanks, everyone!

[kwoswalt99-]

Hi,
I don't know the answers to your questions, but I don't think it's ruined. I did something similar, where I put an almont padlock back together without some of the keypins in. I had to make a really deep hook to set the drivers at the shear line, and it had a yale keyway which made it harder to use such a deep hook, but I did it.
Kyle

[Syl]

Wait! I remember now. I didn't just shove that spring and spool into the same hole and cram it in there! There was a dedicated hole for pinning that stack. I know I did it correctly because it came with a tiny metal cover plate which slid over that hole to keep the spring in. Well, that's a bit of a relief, at least.

It's a bit frustrating because I feel like I'm JUST about to crack this lock, but because that last spring hops around so violently, it causes many of my set pins to pop down. Setting that last pin first also isn't an option as I can't really feel where to set it. Even if I could, setting it anywhere and holding tension on it makes setting any of the other pins unsettable.

[billdeserthills]

Lucky for You the shackle is still open, otherwise You won't be able to remove the core, in case You have chosen an un-pickable (for you)
combination, or as You said earlier, in case You didn't assemble everything correctly!

[Syl]

I definitely closed the shackle. I took that photo after I did the repinning. Can you see that I didn't close it all the way or something like that? I'm pulling on it, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to budge.

I think I'll have to pick it open. Shimming won't work on any padlock that uses ball bearings as the locking dogs, right? Which is fine with me, really. I bought it to provide a challenge and it's doing nicely in that regard.

There are definitely a couple other spools in here. I'm getting their signature behavior on pins 2 and 5.

The crunchy spring is what is making the lock very difficult. It jumps around and causes other pins to fall out of set. I also cannot tell where to set it because it inherently makes clicking and crunching noises with the associated tactile sensations throughout its range of motion.

I'm going to get this, just give me some time.

[billdeserthills]

If you put the spring in and the top pin over it (backwards) that would account for the crunchy spring. In that case when You do get it picked you'll have to probably really
force the keyhole to turn, because the spring will be trapped between the keyhole and the outer cylinder. I would just take a flat blade screwdriver and give it a turn & get
it open, so You can take it apart and get that spring out. It will scar up the inside, but won't do any real noticeable damage to your lock.

[Syl]

I was thinking that too. But, I did remember putting it in and I'm fully sure that the spring was the last object that I was stuffing under the little plate provided.

Also, I was following the guide that was distributed with the lock, so I'm pretty sure that the spring and pin are in the correct order.

Today it seems to have mellowed out a little. It isn't as stiff or creaky as it was when I first put it in. I guess after compressing it numerous times it's lost a little of its stiffness.

[billdeserthills]

Well, it'll just take awhile for you to pick it, maybe You just made Your challenge lock

[Syl]

You just made Your challenge lock

Having a goal is fine with me!

[nite0wl]

Assuming that the 6th stack was assembled in the correct order (key-pin, driver-pin, spring, cover plate) the issue is may be that unlike the 5 springs and drivers that were inserted at the factory the 6th chamber has open to dust and grit accumulating in storage and the spring was not compressed previously while the others have been under pressure since core rolled off the assembly line. Given time, and a bit of cleaning and lubrication that crunchy feeling should subside.

83 series cores typically ship with 3-4 spool pins in the pre-populated chambers with the remainder filled with standard drivers. Abus does not usually use serrated or spoorated pins in the locks and there may be some variation in the pinning in other markets.

[Syl]

a bit of cleaning and lubrication [and] that crunchy feeling should subside.

I think I've already seen the crunchiness begin to lessen a bit just from trying to pick it. For a new lock like this, would it be best to use plain, dry graphite? Otherwise, what would you recommend? I've also been inserting the key blank I have for the lock repeatedly in the hope that this will help loosen that spring.

83 series cores typically ship with 3-4 spool pins in the pre-populated chambers

This makes sense. I think all my drivers are spools except one normal pin in the third stack. At least, that's my guess. I'll have to tear it down all the way once I finally open it so I can see what's going on in there.

So far, I've been using this cheap HPC novice set, but I'm realizing that the hooks they supply in this set are short. That makes it difficult to pick pins further in the back without interfering with higher-set pins closer up front. So far, I hadn't really noticed because the smaller keyways I've been picking up until this 83/50 also have shorter pins, I think. I also hadn't really realized that the set included duplicates of the exact same tools, although I guess it makes sense for a beginner to have some backups.

Good thing some new Sparrows picks are "out for delivery" today! I'm waiting patiently, but you're late, UPS guy!

Thanks so much for the info, nite0wl!

[Syl]

Nevermind on the graphite. I've been reading on it and I see that it's not even close to an optimal solution. It makes sense that graphite added to any kind of liquid lube equals mud.

Going to grab a can of Mil-Comm Lock Saver instead.

[Berget]

Lock picking with a proper goal

I'm not sure what I was thinking, but I popped the core back in, screwed it in and SNAP! closed that sucker. I didn't write down or even attempt to remember where I put each pin.

What is it with new locks, particularly padlocks, and sudden brain fart? It's like it triggers some long ago suppressed psychosis and all logic just goes out the window. I guess everyone have rotated a plug 180°, shooting pins into it from the wrong side. Or assembled a padlock the wrong way so that it could never ever be opened again, even with the correct key. Or pulling apart a cylinder like the Hulk, sending pins and spring into lower orbit.

Nevermind on the graphite. I've been reading on it and I see that it's not even close to an optimal solution. It makes sense that graphite added to any kind of liquid lube equals mud.

Going to grab a can of Mil-Comm Lock Saver instead.

Then explain the concept of graphite oil
But yea, I don't fancy graphite, neither in powder form nor the oil containing it. It seems that most manufacturers recommend a fast drying, PTFE based lube.

[billdeserthills]

I have used graphite for over 25 years and I love it, the ptfe is an OK lubricant, but it doesn't stay in the lock long & it leaves a very thin coating at best

[1mrchristopher]

Graphite is a good choice in dry environments, and when used with the understanding that "less is more." If you live in a humid location and/or you pack so much of the stuff into a lock that it takes diamond creating pressure to insert your key or turn the cylinder, go with a liquid lubricant. I fancy Houdini.