Had to do my first destructive entry into a lock today

[UnlockingBoredom]

I am doing some work for a local locksmith, he has boxes of locks that he has no keys for and I guess he doesnt know how to pick or impression.... His pick set is "Ace" and there is not a scratch on any of his picks.

Well I came across an American 1205 that I was having issues picking (crunching all over) and couldnt impression it either. I wont describe how I got into the lock as I wont break forum rules but I found out that someone had tried real hard to get it open. There was no wafer at the bottom and it had a mechanism that was not spring loaded like the newer American 1205's so when they tried a bypass, all it did was destroy the mech and put a lot of metal shavings into the lock.



It took a bit of cleaning and time of course but I got all the pins and springs cleaned up so I can rebuild the lock as soon as I find the mech for opening.


All the pins were master wafered so it should have been easy to pick or impression!!!!

Now on to Ebay to look for parts..... I really hate having to destroy parts to make things work

[Squelchtone]

Thanks for observing forum rules in regard to using discretion in providing details of the methods you used. We appreciate it!

Very nice pins in that lock, are these typically 6 pin, or are they more often only 5 pin?

Thanks,
Squelchtone

[UnlockingBoredom]

Thanks for observing forum rules in regard to using discretion in providing details of the methods you used. We appreciate it!

Very nice pins in that lock, are these typically 6 pin, or are they more often only 5 pin?

Thanks,
Squelchtone

The 1205's of today that I have dealt with are all 5 pin with a spring loaded mech and a wafer installed. This one is old so I dont know if it was factory 6 or just made 6 pin like I do to all my American's. I wish someone wouldnt have destroyed the solid mech as it made this lock key retaining unlike the newer ones.

Maybe a search will turn up some of the older ones...

[GWiens2001]

You should be able to clean off the cam (the solid piece) and if needed, clean the edges of the cam with small files. It should work fine.

Gordon

[UnlockingBoredom]

Gordon, I should have taken a better picture of the cam, The top portion should be flat with the bottom portion... It has been worn away by someone trying to bypass it.
| /
Instead of looking like this | it looks like | sorry for the way those look, there is only so much I can do with a keyboard..lol
Just imagine the top and bottom lines attached

[nite0wl]

Well if the cam has a half-circle face that is supposed to engage with the cylinder tail that is a key-retaining cam, whoever was trying to bypass it was wasting their time.
Coincidentally, I also had to do my first DE on an American Lock yesterday (an 1100 series) although that was my fault for screwing up the rebuild and then using the wrong tool to try to correct it.

[cledry]

I am doing some work for a local locksmith, he has boxes of locks that he has no keys for and I guess he doesnt know how to pick or impression.... His pick set is "Ace" and there is not a scratch on any of his picks.

Well I came across an American 1205 that I was having issues picking (crunching all over) and couldnt impression it either. I wont describe how I got into the lock as I wont break forum rules but I found out that someone had tried real hard to get it open. There was no wafer at the bottom and it had a mechanism that was not spring loaded like the newer American 1205's so when they tried a bypass, all it did was destroy the mech and put a lot of metal shavings into the lock.



It took a bit of cleaning and time of course but I got all the pins and springs cleaned up so I can rebuild the lock as soon as I find the mech for opening.


All the pins were master wafered so it should have been easy to pick or impression!!!!

Now on to Ebay to look for parts..... I really hate having to destroy parts to make things work

Don't assume he doesn't know how to pick or impression. We have loads of locks laying around because it isn't going to make money for us to make keys to them. Time is money, locksmithing is not a hobby.

[UnlockingBoredom]

Well if the cam has a half-circle face that is supposed to engage with the cylinder tail that is a key-retaining cam, whoever was trying to bypass it was wasting their time.
Coincidentally, I also had to do my first DE on an American Lock yesterday (an 1100 series) although that was my fault for screwing up the rebuild and then using the wrong tool to try to correct it.

Yup, it was one of the half circle ones, they tried so hard to get in they destroyed another 15 to 20 degrees on that poor thing and there was no way they were getting past it. I wonder why American lock company went to the spring loaded cam that people were able to bypass and were not key retaining?

[GWiens2001]

Some places do not want a key retaining lock. Some places mandate key retaining.

Gordon

[UnlockingBoredom]

Some places do not want a key retaining lock. Some places mandate key retaining.

Gordon

Well that makes perfect sense..and good to know

Thanks

[GWiens2001]

Glad to help.

Gordon

[djhobbes]

Hard to tell from the photo, but is that an extra pin in the 6th position or a serrated key pin?

[MatrixBlackRock]

Some places do not want a key retaining lock. Some places mandate key retaining.

Gordon

We recently acquired a number of tower sites in SE and Central Florida and one of the first things I did was to remove all of the daisy chained combo locks and the security problems such a setup makes and replace them with SFIC padlocks, one for each tenant and mastered for my guys and I.

Well a couple of months after this change was completed, I received an e-mail from one of my tenants, corporate compliance & property protection department complaining that the padlocks we installed where not key retaining and their "corporate security" policy required all gates to be secured with key retaining padlocks.

This seemed odd as the combo locks I removed where not key retaining, nor could I figure out and what key retention had to do with securing a driveway gate, none the less I replied back that all of their locks would be modified to key retaining within a few months as part of a routine site maintenance.

I also inquired as to why key retention was required, the answer I received, "because it forces a technician to relock the gate after entering and leaving the site," left me wondering if corporate security people, have real world view of what goes on outside of their office.

Out in Realsville and I have seen this happen and do it myself, a tech or crew shows up, someone gets out and unlocks the gate, if they cannot remove their key from the lock it is merely re-locked to the daisy chain or gate, which is then swung open and excepting rough areas or at night and is left open until it is time to pack up and leave.

Wayne

[Robotnik]

Some places do not want a key retaining lock. Some places mandate key retaining.

Gordon

We recently acquired a number of tower sites in SE and Central Florida and one of the first things I did was to remove all of the daisy chained combo locks and the security problems such a setup makes and replace them with SFIC padlocks, one for each tenant and mastered for my guys and I.

Well a couple of months after this change was completed, I received an e-mail from one of my tenants, corporate compliance & property protection department complaining that the padlocks we installed where not key retaining and their "corporate security" policy required all gates to be secured with key retaining padlocks.

This seemed odd as the combo locks I removed where not key retaining, nor could I figure out and what key retention had to do with securing a driveway gate, none the less I replied back that all of their locks would be modified to key retaining within a few months as part of a routine site maintenance.

I also inquired as to why key retention was required, the answer I received, "because it forces a technician to relock the gate after entering and leaving the site," left me wondering if corporate security people, have real world view of what goes on outside of their office.

Out in Realsville and I have seen this happen and do it myself, a tech or crew shows up, someone gets out and unlocks the gate, if they cannot remove their key from the lock it is merely re-locked to the daisy chain or gate, which is then swung open and excepting rough areas or at night and is left open until it is time to pack up and leave.

Wayne

There is a key retaining padlock securing the roof access ladder at one of our sites. As it is impossible to re-lock the gate while climbing the ladder, most either leave their key in the lock while on the roof ( ) or, as MBR indicated above, lock the padlock to the open gate.

Personally, I lock the padlock to my belt loop while I'm up there. That way, I still have my key with me and have a weighty reminder to relock the gate once I'm back down.

[nick08037]

key retaining can be important, by requiring that the padlock is locked (hopefully to something) to remove the key (even if the access point is left unsecured) it secures the padlock from loss or intentional removal from the premises, losing the padlock would compromise the entire key system and require rekeying of all of the locks on the system. Depending on the key system and if master keying is in use it can be a significant security breach and costly.