American 1205 Problem

[jbrint]

So I had been picking this lock for about a week. Last week I was consistently getting opens and then nothing. Got after it again last night and got it open. Problem is now it looks like the pins have rotated to the bottom of the keyway. I am pretty sure the lock is a waste but had 2 questions:

1. Can I get this back open to remove the damaged core?
2. What did I do wrong to get it into this position?

Here is the lock and thanks in advance.

[femurat]

I think you have rotated the plug too much. This is not possible with a key because the drill breaker stops it, but can happen while picking.
If you insert a flat piece of steel, like the handle of a tension wrench, in the bottom of the keyway, you can lift all the top pins while turning the plug CCW. This should solve your problem.

Good luck

[GWiens2001]

Femurat is refering to lifting the driver pins. They have dropped into the bottom of the keyway, and are blocking rotation.

Gordon

[femurat]

Thanks Gordon,

being the locks here mounted upside down, I always confuse top and bottom pins.

Cheers

[jbrint]

I appreciate the insight gents I will have a go at it when I get home this evening and see if I can sort it out. I enjoy this lock so I would love to be able to keep enjoying it. I will be a bit more careful next time so as not to do this again.

[jbrint]

So after looking at this and trying your recommendation, I realized I did something that looks to be pretty dumb. From the looks of it I rotated the cylinder in the wrong direction instead of back to close. I haven't been able to get the pins back in to rotate it back so I have a feeling this will just have to be chalked up to a rookie learning lesson and this can go in the dissection box for autopsy. Thanks again for the insight.

[GWiens2001]

So after looking at this and trying your recommendation, I realized I did something that looks to be pretty dumb. From the looks of it I rotated the cylinder in the wrong direction instead of back to close. I haven't been able to get the pins back in to rotate it back so I have a feeling this will just have to be chalked up to a rookie learning lesson and this can go in the dissection box for autopsy. Thanks again for the insight.

It should still work. A number of us will pick the lock backwards.

Gordon

[jbrint]

So after looking at this and trying your recommendation, I realized I did something that looks to be pretty dumb. From the looks of it I rotated the cylinder in the wrong direction instead of back to close. I haven't been able to get the pins back in to rotate it back so I have a feeling this will just have to be chalked up to a rookie learning lesson and this can go in the dissection box for autopsy. Thanks again for the insight.

It should still work. A number of us will pick the lock backwards.

Gordon

Sounds like I might just have to stay at it then. Thanks again.

[Evan]

It should still work. A number of us will pick the lock backwards.

Gordon

With the cylinder 180 degrees out of phase from where it should be, if this padlock was one of the (NKR) Non Key Retaining actuators the OP now has a brick/paperweight because the cylinder will not turn in the correct direction once the lock was closed...

The "play" in American padlock cylinders of the NKR type actuated locks is there because the quarter-round piece on the actuator allows it to snap closed against the half-rounded end of the cylinder. With it 180 degree out-of-time you would need to rotate the actuator the wrong way to free it up...

The cylinder and shell of the lock can be saved, but it will require destructive methods to be used to free the cylinder from the body of the lock at this point...

~~ Evan

[jbrint]

It should still work. A number of us will pick the lock backwards.

Gordon

With the cylinder 180 degrees out of phase from where it should be, if this padlock was one of the (NKR) Non Key Retaining actuators the OP now has a brick/paperweight because the cylinder will not turn in the correct direction once the lock was closed...

The "play" in American padlock cylinders of the NKR type actuated locks is there because the quarter-round piece on the actuator allows it to snap closed against the half-rounded end of the cylinder. With it 180 degree out-of-time you would need to rotate the actuator the wrong way to free it up...

The cylinder and shell of the lock can be saved, but it will require destructive methods to be used to free the cylinder from the body of the lock at this point...

~~ Evan

I believe this was a key retaining lock. I never had the key to confirm but the behavior I based that on is the shackle wouldn't lock without moving the cylinder to a closed position. I have purchased an "American 1100" tool to see if I can get the shackle open and remove the cylinder.

[Evan]

I believe this was a key retaining lock. I never had the key to confirm but the behavior I based that on is the shackle wouldn't lock without moving the cylinder to a closed position. I have purchased an "American 1100" tool to see if I can get the shackle open and remove the cylinder.

The shape of the actuator would prevent the situation which has happened from happening.

The half-round actuator of the key retaining locks completely interlocks with the half-round tailpiece on the back of the cylinder.

~~ Evan

[kwoswalt99-]

I believe this was a key retaining lock. I never had the key to confirm but the behavior I based that on is the shackle wouldn't lock without moving the cylinder to a closed position. I have purchased an "American 1100" tool to see if I can get the shackle open and remove the cylinder.

The shape of the actuator would prevent the situation which has happened from happening.

The half-round actuator of the key retaining locks completely interlocks with the half-round tailpiece on the back of the cylinder.

~~ Evan

Actually, without a key, it can turn 180. CCW it will only go about 90, but if you push the shackle back in after it's open, it will continue turning CW to 180. To fix your lock, lift all the drivers with something straight, push the shackle in(this is the important part), and turn it back CCW.

[kwoswalt99-]

Also important to note, the keypins will fall into the holes in the bottom of the cylinder, so you will also need to do this with the keyway facing up.