DUO High Security locks

[Wolf2486]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 23396&rd=1

What is so special about these locks that would justify that price for twenty-five of them?

[mcm757207]

Whatever it is, I'm sure it's not worth $140.

[stick]

14 tumblers, probably pins, but it doesn't use springs. Seems interesting, but I doubt it's anything special, as apparently it's been in use for years, and hasn't really made a name for itself yet.

[Eschatos]

Although I'm slightly enebriated, I figure those to be $5 a piece. doesn't sound too bad for me for any lock.

You would have to have a need for 25 of them, however. I guess it's just tailored to a specific need.

[raimundo]

look at the keys, cut on the edges and also cut on the inner milling. the wafers in these locks are set on the edge of the key or on the inner millings of the key, making key copying difficult. They are often used on coin op machines, more difficult to pick than ordinary wafer locks, but not unpickable by any standard. A set of 25 may also be masterkeyed, though I havent even clicked on your link to see the set on ebay. 6 bux apiece is a good price .

[omelet]

It is amusing that months later this guy has been reposting this same auction with zero bidders on any of them. He should try something different maybe...

Here is the site for the DUO: http://www.illinoislock.com/high_security.htm

I purchased much fewer of these locks via ebay at a considerable amount less than what that guy is asking and have been playing with them here and there for the last several days without succeeding. I am not sure how they work exactly, which doesn't help the matter. Like raimundo said, there are 3 sets of cuts on the keys, 2 opposing each other operating the primary set of 5 pairs of tumblers, and one next to the one on the bottom, operating 4 secondary tumblers. (this is also mentioned on the page i linked)

The page claims that they do not use springs, though sometimes the primary wafers feel somewhat springy and look like they are springing back when i press on them. Why is that?

I noticed the profile of the cuts on the keys corresponding to the primary wafers followed the same profile, so it seems that the top and bottom ones were connected directly. The bottom ones that i can see look like they are moving when I move the top ones, so this confirms it. In that case the lock would essentially only have 9 wafers to worry about, except that if overset, the wafers would have to be pushed back manually.

The function of the side wafers I am confused about. What role do they play? I try to pick the side wafers first and can get the plug to rotate significantly. This makes me think that this is in error (as in the case with security pins), but only then will the primary wafers seem to set at all. But when I think I am setting these it still will not open. Confusing

There is something I am missing which could possibly be solved by disassembling one of these but i am not willing to destroy one yet, since I am fairly confident that I will not be able to put humpty back together again. Possibly I have just been setting the pins wrong, but thought I would ask you guys since I am at a loss here.

[raimundo]

I haven't had an illionis duo apart in decades, but your description of the way the side wafers set, then the top and bottom ones, sounds like mushroom pins, which in a wafer would simply be cuts on the side of the wafer to false set it. Just a thought from the discription of how it is working.

[omelet]

Thanks for your input raimundo

I had that notion about it, but was hoping that someone could confirm it since I haven't heard any mention of security pinned wafer locks on here at all. I will continue to play with this lock with lighter toque than usual and see what that yields.

Someday I will make a sacrifice to the lock gods and tear this bad boy apart.

[Beekeypr]

If you force the plug out through the front of the housing, the housing will break away. There's a spring ring, which fits into a groove in the head of the plug and is compressed when the lock is being assembled. It is there to prevent having a bag of parts when you're fooling around with the cam.

If you look at a DUO key, you'll see a secondary cut surface along the center. Sometimes there is only one cut, sometimes several in different positions. These cuts correspond to positions for which the tumblers must be pulled into the plug in order for it to turn.

Surprisingly, there's alot going on in a Duo lock.

[Buggs41]

Whew! Finally found the thread that answers my question. Somewhat.

The lockers at my bowling alley use these locks. I wanted to make a copy of mine, so I ordered the Ilco L1042B keyblanks from F-B. They came without the side milling, and thus won't work.

What do you think the chances are that Illinois Lock Company will sell me the controlled key blanks? I am not a business yet. Too busy with my full time job. It would be a great learning experience if I could get my foot in the door at the lanes, and make duplicate keys for them.

Currently, many of the people renting the lockers do not have keys available to them. To solve this, the owners have a master key that is attached to a bright orange frisbee, which hangs on a hook near the front counter. With this key floating around as such, my locker is not very secure from theft.

Any ideas on how I can approach this, and hopefully get some practical experience for my retirement carreer?

Thanks!
Buggs41

[Beekeypr]

For some of the keyways, blanks are available that can have the center cuts milled into them if you have the machine to do it. Then you just have to transfer the edge cuts using a duplicator that will properly hold the keys.

You would need a vertical key milling machine to cut the center cuts, such as the Silca Matrix, Club, Club Jr, the old TEN machine, a Bianchi or any of the other machines similar to these. You could also just us a vertical milling machine, carefully placing the cut in the correct position.

IllinoisLock is not in the habit of speaking with locksmiths. They do have service centers around the country that can supply keys cut by the number stamped either on the original key or on the lock. That would probably be the best/fastest way to go to provide quick service for your customer.

[omelet]

I finally got up the courage to tear one of these apart, and to my surprise, it isn't destroyed beyond repair!

As I suspected, the part about it not having springs is a load of crap.

Soon I will bust out the digital camera and show the parts to this lock so that others will have a little better idea of what's going on with these before having to open em up. Altogether, they are very wierd and cool locks

[Beekeypr]

The purpose of the springs is to keep the opposing tumblers opposed and pushed out of the plug. When you insert the correct key, you pull the tumblers into the plug, thereby allowing it to turn.

[biggar101]

A practically pickproof mechanism employing fourteen tumblers; consisting of five pairs of primary tumblers and four secondary tumblers
Keys cannot be duplicated on standard machines. Only authorized Illinois Lock dealers can cut keys
Stainless steel head and body guides deter drilling
Plug can be rung in the head to prevent it from be pulled out
Non-duplicate able keys for controlled replacements. DUO keys are triple bitted with the two opposing bittings controlling the primary tumblers and the side serratures controlling the four secondary tumblers.
Freedom from lock failure because of dirt, freezing or corrosion is assured. Positive tumbler operation for unlocking is accomplished by design, which provides for mechanical movements of the tumblers without aid of springs. Whenever a proper key is inserted into the lock, the primary tumblers will positively align and the lock will unlock. This will occur regardless of any dust or corrosion that may be present in the cylinder.

[Buggs41]

Umm, biggar101.


Wasn't that all covered in the previous posts, and links?


Thanks anyway.