Papaiz - High Security Lock (Only made in Brazil)

by **Santos718** » 8 Aug 2005 22:51

The Key:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/ ... /00006.jpg - side 1
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/ ... /00007.jpg - side 2
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/ ... /00008.jpg - side 3
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/ ... /00009.jpg - side 4

http://www.fechosul.com.br/imgdin/prod/ ... _thumb.jpg - keyway 1
http://www.fechosul.com.br/imgdin/prod/ ... _thumb.jpg - padlock

I had this lock on my old house front door, but didn't install it in the house I am currently in. I believe, when we move, we will be installing these locks again.

Now, its time for your thoughts.

And don't even think of scanning my prints and placing them at a crime scene. :lol:

by **helix** » 9 Aug 2005 0:06

The padlocks keyway looks similar to a club-style club that I have which is not too hard to pick.

That said, I have only attempted two Paipaz padlocks
(regular keyway) and haven't been able to open them
within twenty or thirty minutes.

by **vector40** » 9 Aug 2005 2:05

Crucifix key, looks like.

by **raimundo** » 9 Aug 2005 7:44

papaiz style locks occasionally turn up in minneapolis, and a friend who is an immigrant from ukraine says they use them there, but that might be one of the french types that can be found on chez monmartre/autres, (just google "serrures de haut securite' ") and you will find the very informative monmartre site. Some of these keys are as much as 3 inches long, so they might also be used on safes. I have seen a picture of a cutaway lock of papaiz cruciform.

by **Santos718** » 9 Aug 2005 9:00

The keyway we used had two sliding panels, or miniature sliding doors(however you want to put it) preventing, or just making it difficult, for a pick to enter. In the third picture, where it says "cima"(which means up) with an arrow, thats the only way the key will even fit. With that side up. It's pretty cool, the only thing that got annoying after a while was that you had to turn it 1080 degrees (360 x 3) just to unlock it.

by **Varjeal** » 9 Aug 2005 12:17

Even their "regular" padlocks can be nasty as Papaiz are famous for spool pins. Not technically "rekeyable" in the traditional sense however.

by **skold** » 10 Aug 2005 21:33

The papaiz crucifix lock is spooled like a .

difficult to pick...

by **Santos718** » 10 Aug 2005 21:59

I'm going to try to get my hands on one again and add it to the lock share.

That should be interesting

by **cracksman** » 10 Aug 2005 22:02

I want it

by **SFGOON** » 11 Aug 2005 19:34

I bet I could pick that with a phillips. Lots of pins but not a ot of wards, really...

by **n2oah** » 11 Aug 2005 19:51

These locks can easily (or so I've heard) be picked by the cruciform picks on multipick-service.com, but are not easily hand picked.

by **cracksman** » 11 Aug 2005 20:23

The key actually looks like a decent rake to me. I would assume that it would lend itself to raking, still, I'm not sure what would make it so hard to pick, besides some security pins. Of course that's easy to say because I don't have to pick it :wink:

by **raimundo** » 12 Aug 2005 9:47

when tension is applied on a normal lock, the weakness in theory is that all the pins in line do not bind equally and one will take the pressure, while some others will be free. this comes from the tolerances between the plug and the cylinder and the affect of the tension blade to tilt the core in the cylinder as far as these tolerances allow. With papiaz, there are three rows of pins, with three pins near the front. If all holes are drilled into the cylinder and the core simultaneously, you would then have three front pins binding. (those who don't know papaiz, there are three 'bibles' (is that the word you guys use) of pins, and the forth part of the cruciform keyway is the keys own tension keyslot. This tension keyslot, is usually wider than the ones with pins forcing the user to orient the key correctly before inserting. The necessity of allowing a tolerance between the core and cylinder, so that these are not tightly press fit, and immobile, will probably mean that the heaviest binding will be at the front of the core, where the tensor is strongest, the other end will have the advantage of the springyness of the tensor, so pick the pins nearest the open end first. pick all three rows and then move to the next pins.
If I were to make a machined pick for this lock, I might make the tensor grip fit all four parts at the deepest part of the lock past the last pin, and have a rake fitted to the round shaft of this tensor, possibly with a diamond that can also be put on it. a bit like the abloy pick with the tensor deep in the keyhole and the picks fitted to the shaft of it. I think this chaino of thought just drifted without coming to a conclusion so thats all I have.

by **NKT** » 7 Sep 2005 19:35

I've got one of these on a safe, which is a hard pick, and I've got two mortise locks with these in them, which are easy-to-medium.

You have to pick the mortise locks twice in either direction, and for some reason, the second pick is far, far harder.

by **n2oah** » 7 Sep 2005 20:48

Papiaz locks aren't limited to Brazil-- I found out Papiaz has a .ca website yesterday. I was about to buy some Papiaz Euro cylinders, but the seller never answered me if they were cruciform or not.

Papaiz - High Security Lock (Only made in Brazil)

Papaiz - High Security Lock (Only made in Brazil)

also in europe

a lil theory

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