Has anyone picked a Master 150D?

[andrew_nonymous]

I finally bought some picks this year in Vegas, along with a copy of Steel Bolt Hacking. I read the book, opened my MPXS-11, and 30 seconds later, discovered what the heck I had locked in my desk drawer 3 years ago when I lost the key. The next day, I bought 2 padlocks - a Master 130T and a Master 150D.

2 minutes out of the packaging and the 130T's open on the desk. This is 4 pins of fun, people! Okay, it's really shoddy construction though. Excellent beginner's padlock though - it has a good turn on it when you get a pin in place, although it's slightly irritating that it turns enough to grab the pick you were using at the time. The third time I was opening it, I wasn't concentrating, andended up with 2 diamonds caught in it from the first 2 pins, and lifting the final pin with a paper clip. oops.

Anyway, 4 days later, the darn 150D is still shut. ARGH! It's frustrating me no end! Every half hour or so, I go back to the 130T just to prove to myself that I do have some skill, but I know the lock well enough that I can pick it slowly in 12 seconds, with it and the tools behind my back.

So, the reason I'm writing all this? I want some advice. I am determined to open this 150D, but I haven't got a spare to take apart, especially as I don't see any join lines on it, and it looks like a lump of brass. Looking more closely, the plate at the bottom with the keyway seems the most likely candidate to be the one that was put in place last.

Does anyone have any pictures of the inside of a 150D, or has picked one and knows the secret of it? I believe it's just a plain 5 pin cylinder lock, but I could be wrong. Either way, the key for this lock (which i check regularly, just to check I'm not trying to pick a lock that won't open anymore, or something) have a really low cut in the middle of it. Is there any advice for a newbie as to how to pick around this?

Thanks in advance, and hopefully more thanks to follow.

[ThE_MasteR]

Not being able to open a certain lock is possible because of it's pin placement. Check on the key to see if there are any high cuts, because if that's the case, you are maybe over setting some pins.

This happened to me not long ago, I had 3 ABUS 85/40 5-pin tumbler locks, and 1 always took longer than the others, I guess it must of been the pin placement. but the 2 others would open in seconds.

I would say, if you doubt it's the pin placement, you can continue to try to pick it, but if after a while you don't get it, get another one of the same lock, and try again because the pins aren't placed the same.

Hope that helps.

[n2oah]

I'm pretty sure that you're getting caught up in spools. Light tension is the key. Literally.

If you need more info, search for "security pins".

[ThE_MasteR]

I'm pretty sure that you're getting caught up in spools. Light tension is the key. Literally.

If you need more info, search for "security pins".

On Masterlock's site, they don't say anything about spools, correct me if I am wrong.

[andrew_nonymous]

I will try with less tension, see how far I get. Thanks for that.

As regards pin placement, you may be right, but I'm not convinced yet.

I have the key here, working from the key grip towards the point that goes into the lock first, we have:

very high cut
medium cut
very low cut
medium cut
medium cut

Yes, that's three pins at the same height - no I haven't got any way of measuring them, so I can't give them a number for the height, nor can I see it marked on the key . The problem I think I have is the very low cut - looks as low as it goes - i think I'm over-doing this one. Is there a technique that has been found useful for picking the pins on the other side of it without raising it too much, that I haven't yet spotted?

[vector40]

I picked up a 150 (not sure about "D") on a whim recently. I've only successfully picked it with a snap pick, though admittedly I haven't given it that much effort.

[ThE_MasteR]

So if this is the case,

Set the back pins first with a needle w/ a curved end, and then try picking pin 1 ( High-cut) alone.

Patience is a big part here lol, I didn't have any till I picked some hard locks..

[andrew_nonymous]

Okay, some more persistance, followed by sacrificing it to see its insides and buying a new one to pick :)

Vector40: i'mstill new enough to not know what a snap pick is - i checked out http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=7568 from the FAQ section, but didn't get anything. Is it a device that snaps all the pins at once, hoping they'll bump the top pins out of the way of the shear line, or have I confused myself?

[Chucklz]

The "grippy" end of a key is the bow.
The part that goes in first is the tip.
When describing the cuts, shallow and deep are preferable to high and low cuts. Cuts are described by a number, with 0 and 1 being very little material removed, and the cuts getting deeper as the numbers get larger. Using high and low, there can be some confusion as to exactly what you are trying to say. Im not having a go at you, just trying to give you what you need to describe the situation better.

I would watch out for a spool pin on the "high cut" (shallow depth). With this kind of setup, you have to compress the spring a fair bit, the spring exerting more "return" force all the while. If you have a spool pin here, you will have a tendency to catch it, especially if you are using even a hair too much tension. I suggest picking the lock as you have done, until you feel that all 4 pin stacks are "set". Then go back and push up on the first pin. If you feel the plug wanting to turn back, you have caught a spool. Try to ease up on the tension, and push that sucker up.

[ThE_MasteR]

Post a pic of the inside while your at it, if you don't mind

[andrew_nonymous]

Thanks for that. An update for the key layout then:

From bow to tip, very shallow (i would guess a 0 or more likely a 1), medium (somewhere in the 3-5 range), deep (9 wouldn't surprise me, but could be an 8), and then two more in the 3 to 5 range. The cuts in the 3 to 5 range are all the same depth, so if one of them is a 3, so are the others.

I will try that technique for the working on the spool pin, if there is one, but I currently think this lock is binding from the front, and I haven't figured out a technique to cause it to bind from the back - either I'm consistent or it is.

[vector40]

Vector40: i'mstill new enough to not know what a snap pick is - i checked out http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=7568 from the FAQ section, but didn't get anything. Is it a device that snaps all the pins at once, hoping they'll bump the top pins out of the way of the shear line, or have I confused myself?

That's exactly it. You can buy them or, to varying degrees of success, make them. Many people don't find them particularly rewarding in terms of hobby picking, though, so I mention it mainly as a passing fact.