Idea? Making a lock tougher to pick.

[digital_blue]

So, I was pondering this today and I can't see any reason why this idea wouldn't make a lock significantly harder to pick. Assume for the example that we are using a standard basic deadbolt cylinder such as a Weiser or Kwikset.

If one of the pin stacks was intentionally loaded with a top pin of a smaller diameter than the rest of the pins, and a bottom pin with a larger diameter. Assume this was done in chamber 5 (though it wouldn't matter). The way I see it, pin stack 5 would be the last to bind because of the smaller diameter on the top pin. So after setting each of the other pin stacks, you would get a more significant turn of the plug much like when you have a spool pin. But when trying to set the stack, due to the larger diameter of the bottom pin, you would end up resetting the regular pins.

This would offer no protection against bumping or pick guns etc, but it seems to me it would be at least as effective as a spool pin. Perhaps even more if the pin diameter of the larger bottom pin were sufficiently large enough.

I could be missing something here, but... any thoughts?

db

[stick]

Why would the larger diamater of the bottom pin affect the other pin stacks? When the top of the bottom pin is pushed to the shear line, the top pin would set, and the lock would open. There's no reason to raise the bottom pin above the shearline, and therefore no reason the other pins would unset.

[digital_blue]

LOL.

Wow. Of course. How silly.

You know, I got myself into a bit of a mental trap because of a lock I've been working on recently. Hehehehe... ok, seemed like a good idea at the time.

Thanks stick.

db

[stick]

Haha, yeah, happens all the time to me. You get on this track where you think you've got this brilliant idea because you've overlooked one simple thing.

[treboR]

I have a generic kw1 deadbolt that is quite hard to pick. The top of the entire number 4 pin stack sits at the shearline. I can't set it first because it does not bind until after I set the 3rd stack. After I set the 3rd stack it turns so far that I can not lift it at all. Because of this the number 5 stack is very hard to set. This is my second hardest lock behind my biaxial. I can pick it, but it is difficult. BTW. it does not have any security pins.

It bumps pretty easily, and I can open it with my electric pick.

[stick]

Yeah, a while back, I bought a Kwikset deadbolt that had the best pinning I've ever seen on a Kwikset. It's virtually unpickable without a graduated curve pick, and even then I had to make a special one for that lock where it gets steeper towards the end.

[digital_blue]

Aha! But what about a conical shaped top pin? I know conical pins exist, but is that the point? That the bottom of the cone is of a larger diameter than the other pins? 'Cause if it is, that seems like it would be a more effective form of security pin. If it's not, then maybe it should be.

Or am I just missing something again?

db

[stick]

Again, it'd be the same as picking a spool or mushroom pin. Even if it does cause the other pins to unset, after it's set, the other pins would be able to be set normally.

[digital_blue]

You're absolutely right. Ok. I give up then.

db

[Mad Mick]

How about:
spool, mushroom, serrated, mushroom fitted up-side down, standard pin?

Or shall I go join db in the corner?

[digital_blue]

Please do. It's lonely here.

LP

db

[stick]

In theory, no matter what shapes and sizes the pins are, it'd be possible to pick, unless at their widest points, each pin was exactly the same size, the holes were perfectly lined up, etc, IE perfect tolerances. In practice, I doubt you could pick a Kwikset pinned with those. Also could try replacing the standard pin with one of those spools with the sliding sleeve.

[Mad Mick]

...sliding sleeve.

Stupid pins.

[jamesphilhulk2]

what about a modified Time Lock?

[TOWCH]

What about an SFIC using this alternating between small top, and small bottom pins. If you can make an SFIC with pin stacks that alternate which stack they like to set at it would make picking frustrating.