Spool Pins

[treboR]

I put 4 spool pins in a kwikset deadbolt. This is the only lock that I have picked with and without spool pins. I use less tension to pick it with spool pins.
Before I did this I thought I used heavier tension on spools. I found out that with spools I have to pay more attention to my tension, but I do not use more force.

Here is a video
http://hosted.filefront.com/rboehme

It is in the manual picking folder.

[quicklocks]

also check out my vids on the subject they may also help
http://hosted.filefront.com/quicklocks

[sivlogkart]

The best way to get the right tension is just to experiment, and after a while you know what the right tension feels like, but not in an absolute way, as it depends on the lock, but rather in terms of how it changes the feel of the pins. It is very hard to describe how one knows if you are using the right tension in words, as once masters it comes down to feel, which comes from experience. But basically if something does not work try something a little different next time. It is easy to get into a cycle of making the same error time and time again. Try a different lock and come back to the one you had trouble with later etc.

Also change where you are pushing the torsion tool as for the same finger pressure that will change the torsion, and some people find this easier than changing the finger pressure.

KJ

[Greyflex]

Umm.. I am pretty new to this, but I would like to add my two cents to the "best tension" debate. I find that the best amount of tension varies at different times of the picking process, but generally speaking, the more the better.
When it comes to spools, why anyone would suggest lighter tension, I don't really know (unless you are raking, rather than picking). Of course you have to reduce tension when u find a false-set spool pin, but that doesn't mean heavy tension is bad in the interim.

I think some people have a problem with spools cuz to get a falsely set spool pin to move, not only does the tension have to be lessened, but the plug has to be allowed to counter-rotate. If you use an unyielding tension wrench, you will have to let the wrench visibly "retreat." Of course, this may cause some pins to unset. To reduce this possibility, you want to press up firmly on the pin while you slowly reduce the tension and/or unrotate the wrench. What does this do? Basically, when you reduce tension, the force in the pin springs is what causes the plug to "un"-rotate, as it forces the slightly rounded driver pins back into the plug holes. This is a very weak force, which produces counterrotation obliquely, through a mechanism loaded with friction. Hence the movement caused by this force will be a bit "herky-jerky" on a microscopic scale, due to various factors, including the higher coefficient of static friction over kinetic. So when the plug finally begins to counterrotate, it may do so in a big jump, allowing pins to unset. When you press up on a falsely set spool, you are adding to the force of counterrotation, ensuring that a) the movement will be a bit smoother and b) that the pin will be encouraged to realign to "squeeze" thru the smallest possible opening, as it is created by the counterrotation. And when the spool pin finally "breaks" out of the false set, I immediately freeze and increase tension back to "standard" before advancing the pin any further so I don't overset the pin.
Anyways, I believe that for the most error-proof pin-by-pin picking, it is best to use as much tension as u can while still being able to easily move the pins. In most locks, I use enough pressure that the sticky driver pin stays put, even when it isn't to the shear line, yet. Also, when it comes to spools, as much pressure on the pin as possible will generally be helpful. Of course, after I have learned how to pick a particular lock, and unlock it just for fun, I will use very little tension, because I already know where to expect the "breaks" and will not need as much feedback.

[treboR]

The reason many of us suggest less tension is because, especially in high quality locks(closer tolerances), when you add too much tension, you will cause more pins to bind at once. This in turn will hinder your ability to set them in the correct order, causing already set pins to unset. You only need enough turning force to turn the unlocked plug. You can pick locks with alot of tension, but it will not be as easy and your tools will not last as long.

This is from my experience.

[Gordon Airporte]

I've started pulsing the tension when I'm setting a spool pin. Just start pulsing lightly and gradually increase pressure until it sets, at which point you will already be pushing again so you minimize fallout of the other pins. I usually use very rigid wrenches.

[Genicide]

I just finished picking the Brinks R70 which has 3 spools and i found the easiest way to feel and control my tention was to use a wrench with a long handle, vary the amount of tourque depending on the pin, and if one or more of the pins reset dont give up and start over just keep lifting them until the plug turns.

[Greyflex]

Robert8 wrote: "You can pick locks with alot of tension, but it will not be as easy and your tools will not last as long. "

Umm. First of all, I never used the term "alot" to describe the tension I like to use. That term isn't very helpful to a noob trying to pick his first spool pin, and that is the point of this thread, isn't it? What I said was closer to: "as much tension as your tools will allow," and while still being able to "easily move the pins." This amount of tension will obviously depend on the lock. My first experience with a Schlage deadbolt is a good example. At first, I thought there were security pins in it, because the pins were locked up so tight I thought they must be falsely set. I quicky discovered I was using too much tension, and I still got the lock open in about three minutes. I was pretty pleased.

"Especially in high quality locks (closer tolerances), when you add too much tension, you will cause more pins to bind at once. This in turn will hinder your ability to set them in the correct order, causing already set pins to unset."

- If this guy could set the pins in any order, I think he would eventually get the lock open, don't ya think? And just cuz it has a spool pin doesn't mean it's a higher quality lock. It seems like many people encounter their first spool pins in a Masterlock 140. Granted, when u can't figure out which pin is next, you should probably experiment with tension to see if that helps isolate the next pin. More often than not, though, I would guess higher tension (in the range of tensions in which the lock is pickable, not "alot of tension") will provide less ambigous feedback, particularly after you have located the sticky pin and are in the process of setting it.

- Just another penny of thought to add to my previous two cents.

[ltltony]

[quote="helix"]http://deviating.net/lockpicking/02.05-spool_binding.html

Press the index button for more stuff and bookmark this site.

-Lockpicking, by Deviant Ollam.[/quote]


I came acroos this site looking for information on spool pins and found this site and have really enjoyed it thus far. The page Helix posted was really helpful to me in understanding what happening inside some of the slightly advanced locks. I wish I would have seen that when I first started. Thanks for posting it!!

[devnill]

Yeah, I tested all the pins, I'm pushing on the really soft one and just the slightest decrease of tension drops all the spools.

have you picked any other locks before? read the mit? read the forums? you should fint the pin with the most binding force, and lift that one first. soft pins will just slide back down.

[sams choice]

I have found that slight tension works best for me when it comes to spool pins. What i have found is that you must know the lock first. Most locks iwth spool pins have at lest one or more straigt cylinder pins in them. I have learned that his pin is usally the last that will go. i use a wrench with a twist in it and push slightly on it just enough to turn the cylinder. Also While picking the pins, if you get about 3 done and it turn a noticable amount, these usually means to me that i have falsly set it. I take tension off and start over. The type of pick i use is the slimest one i have. It is shaped really wavey like an S on the end. I even put "spool" on it to tell me to use this one. i have been very successfull with this method and tools. usually it take me from 30 to a minutes to pick a 5 pin tumbler with 4 spools in it.

Sammie boy