patio door lock id help please

[horsefeathers]

Can anyone please help identify the following patio door lock. Unless I missed it, I cant find it in Duffells or Citysafe catalogues.

It is fixed to a sliding wooden door. There are black turn handles either side which when turned slide the steel flat long plate up or down. There are keyway style holes top and bottom of the plate which locate in protruding bolts in the opposite door frame and engage with them when in the locked position, preventing the door from being slid open.

The customer has lost the key and is securing it by other means for now. Through the plate, but just above the cylinder, is an allen key headed round bolt. What purpose does this serve as it seems not to want to unscrew, and only moves slightly. Basically I need to get the cylinder out to replace it and so presumably need to remove the long steel plate in order to get to the cylinder retaining screw. How do I do this?

Any help appreciated.



thanks

wayne

[quacking_duck]

Wayne,

Looks like something similar to one of the old Union M range aluminium door mechs, but fitted to a slot in the wood, although cylinder isn't a Union.
The allen nut will probably have something to do with the mechanism which locks the turn handles with which the cylinder cam engages. Have you tried picking it yet?

If not, pick the cylinder and lock the door open. You may find, in doing this, the allen nut behind the hole moves, enabling you to get your screwdriver in to loosen the cylinder retaining screw and remove cylinder.

If all else fails, try impressioning the cylinder and cut a couple of keys for the existing one.

Hope this helps,

Matt

[horsefeathers]

thanks for your help - however, my fault, I should have added that the lock is unlocked and can obviously open. The handles either side can turn, and in doing so raise and lower the sliding steel bar up and down accordingly. The cylinder retaining screw is hidden behind the plate. I assume that the visible allen headed screw is simply attached to the handles (internally) because it moves up and down when the handles are turned, therefore taking with it the plate. This screw cannot it seems be tightened any further into the door (and so screwing behind the plate), nor can it be unscrewed - not possibly without a great deal more force. Which is why I wanted advice as to whether this screw was indeed the main access screw - remove this and the plate comes off, cylinder next etc.

Impressioning!! Now there is a different ball game.

regards

wayne

[quacking_duck]

I can see where you're coming from there Wayne as in pic, hole is above where the retaining screw for cyl would be..

When I said 'lock the door open' in my last post , I thought that, maybe if you were to pick the cylinder the other way while still leaving the door open, turning the cam could have taken the allen nut away from the plate, thus disabling the handles-plate link without the key and locking the door, but possibly enabling you to push the plate a few mill down (if the handle mech is no longer attached to the plate on picking cyl and if the door is open) so hole is level with the retaining screw and get your screwdriver in the hole to take cyl out.

Alternately, if turning key (picking the lock locked) while door is open does move the allen nut away from the plate, the plate may slide all the way out of the black mounting by unscrewing the screws inside the sliding locking keeps.

Was only a thought though,

Sounds like a pig of a job. Why can't everyone have good old BS locks eh?

Matt

[horsefeathers]

i see where you are coming from Matt.....good thinking!

I will see what the customer wants to do. He is actually a tenant and has never had a key for this lock (been there 3 months) and so was trying to get a key from the Property Managers/Landlord but they keep giving him the brush off. He had been living there under the impression that the door could not be opened from the outside so he was quite safe. In fact, he was actually told that by one snooty woman at the agency. Last week he realised that the outside handle does indeed open the door. And he has some nice gear inside too! Not a happy bunny! Obviously being a tenant he doesnt want to spend his own money on replacing anything, but could live with buying a new euro. And of course the landlords want to get away with spending zilch on their properties.

regards

wayne

[Rockford]

Is there anyway you could take a clearer photo of the side plate and inside handles - those above are too grainy. This would help ID the lock and how to remove the retaining screw (although it could be a recessed allen key screw).

[79commando]

Just snap the cylinder and the relevent screw will fall out.

[EvoRed]

Does that hole above the euro not lower to the retaining screw height when locked/unlocked, enabling you to access, as Rockford says, a recessed allen key screw?

[Rockford]

79commando - always the subtle approach

Still need to find the retaining screw entrance to fit the replacement.

I'm sure I've come across one of these before, and had to move the face plate up/down in order to access the screw - this one had the bolts on the closing side though.

A better picture would help.

[horsefeathers]

I probably wont be going back there unless the tenant gets the go ahead from the landlord/agency to carry out more work so doubt I will get a better picture (it was at night after all)

snapping the cylinder only would result in draft for the customer. The retaining screw would still not come out as the plate is still in the way. If i could get the screw out I wouldn't be here asking advice....on how to get the cylinder out...... (just teasing 79commando)

The hole (in which the allen bolt neatly sits) does not move to the line of the cylinder unfortunately.

I havent even told yet you that the bottom keyway hole has the push button missing/screws missing and seems to be full of cement!!!! Didnt want to add to your misery..

[vector40]

You might try forcing the screw. Could be a decent intermediate solution.

[quacking_duck]

Looks as if strip's seen better days then, but good luck if you go back there.

If you do go back there, I very much doubt it's worth a try asking him if he wants a decent lock like a 3M50 fitting then as additional security. Landlord / property manager sounds like a right tightwad idiot and would no doubt grimace in pain at the thought and the sight of the white fivers in his wallet for an 80 or 90 quid lock

Perhaps fit a couple of half decent key-op rim bolts on the inside top & bottom as a temporary measure if he has another means of exit from the property until you work out exactly how the cylinder (and the lock if you have to replace it) comes out.