Are North American locks less secure?

[mh]

The locks in much of Europe tend to be Euro cylinders. Most are much higher quailty than the average US Kwikset. But shoddy installs abound, just like in the US, even in places where you would expect a good installation. The Hauptbanhof restaurant in Munich has euros on the exterior door sticking out a good 3cm !

If you consider the circumstances, that's hurting one's eye, but not a big security risk; because it's the Hauptbahnhof, Federal Police is patrolling there 24 hours a day...
Looking around at jewellery stores nearby, you will find really nice installs.

Hope you had good food there, though


About the topic, I tend to believe that European locks are much harder to pick than any other locks in the world. Gives me an excuse for being so untalented at it.

But seriously: Very thin and paracentric keyways are quite common in Europe, means, you have to move the picks not only up and down, but also twist them all the time...
When I first saw a mechanical pick gun, I couldn't believe that it might work, until I saw a Kwikset for the first time...

[Chucklz]

I am very familiar with the police there. Our student group was stopped twice in 15 minutes, because they beleived we might be drug smugglers.


I was very impressed with the various keyways I saw on my trip, especially compared to the two most common US keyways. However, there are some locks in the US that have very tight keyways as well. They are not always easy to find, but they do offer a good challenge.

mh, Kwiksets are so poorly built that some of us refer to them as Quick Pick.

[mh]

However, there are some locks in the US that have very tight keyways as well. They are not always easy to find, but they do offer a good challenge.

I know. When we moved to California, one of first things I did was to shop for proper locks, and I found Medeco biaxial locks to be quite appropriate
Can't fit them to German doors properly, though, now that we are back
So they have to sit and wait in my collection, who knows, maybe we come back one day...

[Treeson]

Hello all,

I would also like to add that although many locks in the US do in fact tend to be lesser quality, there are many difficult locks out there. I live in a small community and there are very secure locks around here in certain places. Our local postoffice uses Alboy Discus locks on just about everything, and my highschool has rather narrowly keyed Yales.

I am going to use locks and situations in my area for these next few examples. There are many houses where I live that will be satisfied with just a Kwikset guarding their door, but upper scale houses tend to use much higher locks, like Yale, Russwin, Schlage, Medeco, and some Alboy's. I find that the lesser quality locks tend to be installed as a way for builders to cut costs. When they're building a house, its much more costly to throw in a couple KIK Kwiksets or the like. Many home owners don't feel the need for higher quality locks due to the protective community feeling that an island provides.

My house for example has some rather low quality Kwiksets which provide an easy pick. One unfortunate sideffect of hobby lockpicking is the knowledge of how little protection most locks frequently provide.

I understand everyone has differnet locks in their area, and I thought it would be helpful if I shared some of the ones around here.


Cheers,

Treeson

[chrisjc33]

over here in the uk,well manchester area most of the doors(domestic) are now uPVC(euro cylinders) and from what i have seen 95% of them have cheap easy to pick euros
and the ones that still have a good old solid wood door have a rim cylinder(yale) and a mortice but you will find when you go to a lockout it's just the yale because they don't use the mortice,again easy pick or slip
and if they look like they have money then out comes the drill because there yale is unpickable

[KottonKang]

I think that people door security depends on many factors such as population, geographic location, and your local crime rate. In general the way people secure themselfs is how safe they feel in their surroundings.

[Chucklz]

In the US, I find that most people have kwiksets or schlages. The Schlages I find more on houses in higher income areas. There are quite a few Baldwin's in my area, but they are just a Schlage cylinder usually. THe problem I see with this is that diversity is very low. THere are some very easy forceful methods to open some of these locks that would be very easy for a thief to exploit if they were very commonly known. Perhaps one day we shall see a similar situation in the US as with snapping cylinders in Europe.

[zeke79]

I must agree that euro cylinders are more of a challenge to pick. I have a decent amount of them ranging from buva and corbin through winkhaus to Ikon WSW and Evva MCS. Even the low end locks such as the corbin and buva are just more fun to pick than most US locks I have. More toward the mid range are the Evva GPI's with a nice paracentric keyway and warding that makes lifiting the 0-3 cuts pretty difficult at times without resetting due to security pins. All in all I enjoy them (Euros)much more than any of my other (US) locks.

[devildog]

The only U.S. locks I've seen with truely challenging keyways are Yale Y1's and Medeco Keymarks.

In response to chucklz, I think just about everybody knows about the credit card trick, but there hasn't really been any kind of public effort to do something about it. A question for the lockies here: Overall, what portion of households in your area leave at least one door locked at the knob (which is susceptible to loiding) when no one's home but not the deadbolt even though the door HAS a deadbolt?

[devildog]

For people in the U.K., substitute 'mortise' or 'deadlock' for 'deadbolt'. A solid bolt that's thrown and locked in place; oh you know what I mean

[zeke79]

Even with just a knob lock, if it is an entry grade knob and is installed correctly loiding is not possible.

[mh]

Perhaps one day we shall see a similar situation in the US as with snapping cylinders in Europe.

I believe that snapping cylinders is meanwhile so well known that most of the locks (escrutcheon plates that is) have been upgraded, at least here in Germany - German insurance companies had requirements about that already 10 years ago.

[lockedin]

What do you guys mean by "snapping cylinders"? Pickgun techniques?

[mh]

What do you guys mean by "snapping cylinders"? Pickgun techniques?

No, snapping here means to break them in half. Euro profile cylinders are rather thin in the middle, and due to this some versions can be broken / snapped with force.
That's why a proper installation has a plate around it that protects it from gripping it and applying such force.

[illusion]

What do you guys mean by "snapping cylinders"? Pickgun techniques?

Nah, physicaly breaking the lock in half. If the end of the Euro profile hangs out about 2mm or more out of the door it can be snapped - hence why escrutions and other plates are put to surround the lock, making sure that a cylinder snapper cannot get a grip.