Making an unpickable Lock

[Sinan]

Hmm... first off I'll say sorry for the butcher job I am about to do in the relaying of my idea. I've been thinking that a lock would be sufficiently difficult to pick if you could remove the binding action one step from the key. It is difficult to visualize and I wish I could show you my drawings, but think of it like this... 8 pin lock, activated with a 2/3rds turn. one pin at the back is the "sealed" pin, the key has no access to it, but by interacting with the other 7 pins it pushes the 8th pin to its shear line. The first 3 pins are regular security pins with a normal shear line. now pins 4-7 will be the most difficult to describe but also the key point for this hypothetical locks security. These pins have no conventional shearline, the key pins branch radially to support the upper pins at the height defined by the key, and the top pins combine wafer edges that allow movement of a long coded pin to slide past them. This coded pin slide back and forth due to the torque. Because the is no binding to be done on pins 4-7 and, in order for a 4-7 key sequence to be tried you must first pick 1-3 and hold them up while 4-7 are activated it will provide an intense challenge.

Hope you can make sense of my garbage, If not my humble apologies and gratitude for taking the time to read it.

PS. I think the fault of a lock like this is the manufacturing.

[Prodigy]

There are plenty of outstanding locks, it works both ways when it comes to tolorence's.

If they are so fine and you cannot pick them(new) give it time after wear and tear will allow some feedback. however they are then able to be attacked in other ways because the elements are 'an exact' known and therfore be tested.

This is how Falle makes tools and attacks.

If the tolorences are big (technically "CRAP") then the lock will be easily picked.



Food for thought I hope!.

[Blink]

Hey guys, I've got a question about trap pins. Would it be possible to use a plug spinner as soon as you pick it, as in you pick it, and only rotate it like 10-15*, then use the plug spinner (in the same direction) to pass by the trap pins?

Thanks,

Blink

[p1ckf1sh]

Hey guys, I've got a question about trap pins. Would it be possible to use a plug spinner as soon as you pick it, as in you pick it, and only rotate it like 10-15*, then use the plug spinner (in the same direction) to pass by the trap pins?

I remember the end of the bumping revisited video, when Han Fey (is that hi name? i think so...) was talking about high security locks. They were showing the trap pin approach and stated that they wasted three locks when trying to get past the trap pins. I think they did everything, plug spinner being the first and most obvious I guess. They had not a tad bit of success. I don't think there are non-destructive ways to get around them (at least on that type of lock, can't remember what the manufacturer/brand was).

[illusion]

Hmm... I wonder how far the plug can be turned, before the trap pins are engaged? I expect that they saw this approach, but if you had enough leeway to turn the plug and keep all the top pins above the sheer line, yet not enough to engage the trap pins you could easily decode the bottom pin lengths, and then cut a key.

Obviousy this is not the best way - the best being the Fallle decoder in my eyes, but it might perhaps be a sollution. I don't have one of these locks to try on unfortunately.

[p1ckf1sh]

[...]keep all the top pins above the sheer line, yet not enough to engage the trap pins you could easily decode the bottom pin lengths, and then cut a key.

I think this is the only way, because...

Obviousy this is not the best way - the best being the Fallle decoder in my eyes, but it might perhaps be a sollution.

...I do not know how sturdy the Falle decoder (I reckon you mean the sputnik) are. But considering the fact that the trap pins engaged even with the condensed experience of TOOOL people working on the Flipper, I'd expect the springs on those trap pins to be really powerful. Maybe they would bend the wires when rotating.

If I had to open a lock like this to save my life, I would make the pins stationary after picking, either by cutting a ke or by using liberal amounts of silicone, thread repair glue or whatever.

[TOWCH]

You could heat up the lock witha blowtorch and temper the springs on the trap pins.

[NKT]

Using a blowtorch isn't really a good idea on a real door, though, since to get the springs to the heat you need, you will set fire to the door, or at least the paint on the door if it is steel.

Perhaps that magic glue that is rumoured to be used by the Isreali's?

[p1ckf1sh]

Perhaps that magic glue that is rumoured to be used by the Isreali's?

What is that rumoring about? Or what makes it so special?