False gates

by **pinky** » 10 May 2006 16:13

the terms 5g , 6g and 7g refer to the keyway size, which are basics, as these tools like decoders are only on sale to trained and trading locksmiths, no instructions are included, other than sometimes basic instructions. this is because if a trained and trading locksmith, then this should be known and understood.

i realise that this doesnt help hobby guys, which is why sites like this exist, but when sharks like derek johnson exist who will sell picks at double the price to anyone including crooks, then is it any wonder instructions on what should already be known by all trading locksmiths are not included.

and most of this info is available here on 101 free.

by **illusion** » 10 May 2006 16:17

5G means 5 GAUGE. Depending upon the number before the G will determine the size of the curtain. 7G is smaller than 5G for instance... as the numbers go up the curtain gets smaller, and vice-versa.

Low lift means the key does not have to lift the lever very high, and vice-versa for the low lifts. The same idea applies with pin sizes and how they have high pins and low pins.

False notches are cut into the side of the levers and alow to bolt to sink into them, but not withdraw. The shape of these notches varies somewhat - square cuts into the levers and a standard stump can be seen on the Profit and Invincible, whilst the serrated levers and serrated stump are seen on the Chubb 3U114 amongst others.

The Chris Belcher, and the Mark Franciss Tripple are all good candidates for picks, but it depends upon what you can afford. The CB pick is nice to use, and the lollipop handle works well. I haven't seen the Franciss pick up close so won't comment on that.

I made a guide for non BS lever locks which can be found stickeyed in the 'Locks' section of the site. No guide regarding BS lever locks exists in the public forum, and IMO nor should it.

If you need anything else clafied just ask and I, or another UK member will help you out.

Cheers,

Ben

by **kwc** » 10 May 2006 16:30

Thanks for the reply,
I understand the limits of disclosure here. I would like to learn more about the mortice picks to eventually help me get a job in locksmithing but like everyone else here, i have little money to go on the training courses and need to self teach. I don't have a dream of working for myself rather to work for a locksmith who is already going.

One day i will hit lucky and get the training i need.
Until then i will continue to learn from here.
Best wishes
Kev

by **illusion** » 10 May 2006 16:36

Check this out: http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=10743

by **kwc** » 10 May 2006 17:05

Hi illusion,
Thanks for the link. Will read through it tonight.
Kev

by **pinky** » 10 May 2006 17:14

kev

an awfull lot can be learnt here, all the info you need on using a curtain pick can be found here on 101 in this topic forum.
no short cuts exist, read digest then play and practice, i guarantee you , you will learn more by playing, studying and understanding these locks than you could learn from any course.
with the likes of alan morgan on here, you really have some of the best lock pickers in the country here, on top of this , 101 is the largest info database of its kind, and best of all its free.
it may take time to trawl through it all, but this is the fun bit, and most threads contain at least 1 pearl of info.

enjoy, this is the best bit of all, the learning!

by **kwc** » 10 May 2006 17:29

Hi Pinky,
I always visit most days to read new posts and do find it the best for information.

My problem is that i can't practice on mortice locks as i don't have the picks for them. Iam not in the locksmith trade but i do work in the Alarm trade. I sometimes get to use my lock picking skills at work when someone has lost a key (on CCTV cabinets, tubular lock) and also fitting mortice locks.

I fully understand the reasons behind the protection of information about the picks and the buying of them. First i need to be able to know about the use of each type and then second, buy some to pratice with.

One thing you may be able to answer for me!
There seems to be alot of info about lock picking all types of locks but no one gives much info about the mortice locks.
Do you class them as advanced subjects like safe locks?
Thanks again
Kev

by **pinky** » 10 May 2006 17:37

they are often tabbo, as seen to be the top line of defence.
but many posts exist on how to use a curtain pick, how to pick certain locks like era invincible , profit , legge etc, these posts already exist on the forum, they just need searching out.

a bs lock on the whole is not something that can be talked open, it needs understanding and a feel needs developing for each lock.

check out the posts on site already, many go back 2 years or so, but all info is there. the best pickers are self taught.

you can make an adequate curtain pick from a keyblank and piano wire, after all this is all chris belcher started with and his pick was modelled on, this is how he learnt.

by **kwc** » 10 May 2006 18:01

I think i need to get to know the search button a bit more in the coming days.
Kev

by **quicklocks** » 11 May 2006 14:03

hey mate i started bs picking with a old key and some welding rod! :shock:

still got it in my box as a reminder of how i started and its not all about the newest shiny tool.
get a lock take it apart and see how it works study it ask these questions:-

how do i get round the curtain?
is the curtain in the way?
what does the curtain do?
how do i put pressure on the bolt?
why do some levers stay up when lifted under pressure ?

answer these questions yourself and you are well on the way to opening the lock just sit and think, go have a coffee then come back to it
hope this helps
theres no point spoon feeding you the answers to this because you wont learn from it

by **london_lad** » 13 May 2006 6:22

Hi all

I managed to open my first curtain lock on a warant on Friday, I was well pleased. :lol:

Wasn't sure what lock it was as it had no markings. It took me about 3 minutes so I was well chuffed. I have to say if it hadn't of been for all the advice you guys have given me on here, i'd still be trying to open that lock now :shock:

Now I just have to crack the era's and i'll be laughing as every other lock I come up against is an era. At the moment I'm drilling and picking them but hopefully soon I can put my drill to bed.

Cheers

Dave

by **bonez** » 13 May 2006 6:31

your doing warrants already :!:

and you can't pick an era,who are you working for?

by **EvoRed** » 13 May 2006 8:28

My thoughts too bonez. Careful london_lad, don't run before you can walk.

by **pinky** » 13 May 2006 12:58

how are you drilling and then picking an era ? you either pick it or you drill it, you cannot do both to the same lock. if you mean drilling case and lifting levers to open, thats not picking, and not NDE.

read through the threads on era, its a very simple pick.

by **london_lad** » 14 May 2006 10:55

Hi

Yes I am doing warants already have been for a while. I had one weeks training with safe ventures which was great then I went out with another locksmith for a few weeks then I was out doing warant runs. I've been a locksmith for just 3 months so I suppose I was chucked in at the deep end. I am doing ok so far although I have had a few scary moments esp when you've got old bill and warant officers standing behind you waiting to get in.

When i said drill and pick I ment drilling a hole just near the stump so you can lift the leavers and open it without damaging it and putting a cover plate on the door after. Obviously this is not something I want to be doing all the time which is why I have just purchased the curtain pick. I aint had much luck with it so far but i'm getting there and hopefully should master it soon.

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