Bumping...NO STICKY?!

[p1ckf1sh]

illusion, before you die of exagerrated expectations... he was talking about opening cars not picking auto locks. He is most likely talking about slim jims, wires or forced destructive opening.

And with the huge amount of different tools and auto lock designs merchandised to locksmiths I am not even sure if slimjims and wires should be ruled out, there is hardly a way to design a tool that opens 99% of all cars. Unless you live in in a state where foreign (read euro/asian) cars are rare because everyone is driving US-made pickup trucks.

[illusion]

Yeah, he's not talking about using picks, fair enough, but read this part of my post:

If you mean the mecs then deadlocking stops interior attacks, and protection around the linkage stops down-the-side attacks - Now you are in trouble and your 10 sec limit has been breached.

Well he has a technique that will open every car, and under 10 secs, I want to see this.

[p1ckf1sh]

Well he has a technique that will open every car, and under 10 secs, I want to see this.

[Bud Wiser]

I did PM you but I was not refering to steering wheel locks, but car doors.

[p1ckf1sh]

I did PM you but I was not refering to steering wheel locks, but car doors.

He is referring to door locks as well. Deadlocking and protection of the opening rods are part of the protection on cars nowadays. Have you never heard the terminology or is this all rendered useless by the monster of a tool you are referring to? It sure would be nice to find out what kind of cars you are talking about as well. Even my '96 VW Sharan has deadlocking as a standard.

[Krypos]

i like the tool. does it come in other colors? perhaps black? i imagine it is very successful, what with the triangulated, laser cut, ergonomic designs of the tool.

[Bud Wiser]

I'm not knowledable with the terminilogy as I am a newbie for sure. My post came from personal experience when our new rental car in hawaii was broken in to practically in front of us with out any one knowing it. It was indeed a forced entry by the keyport. The police officer who responded to our call informed us that this was all too common and that just about any kid can be in and out of a car in a matter of minutes with what ever was in the car they wanted to get. I didn't notice any thing unusual until I went to unlock our car! I noticed the key port was damaged. I'm just going by what the cop told us. Breaking in to cars is very easy with no special talents required. It's a major problem in hawaii, and I imagine else where too.

[p1ckf1sh]

i like the tool. does it come in other colors? perhaps black? i imagine it is very successful, what with the triangulated, laser cut, ergonomic designs of the tool.

[sales pitch]
This is not ONE tool! This is TWO tools in ONE! You can use our great GINSU knives (sold separately) to cut THIS tool to make TWO TOOLS. It can even be painted ANY COLOUR you like without loss of functionality!

Order 500 of these NOW and you get them delivered with GENUINE BRICKSTRAP that will actually give you STOCK MATERIAL to create old style low tech manipulation needles to manipulate AUTO LOCKS in case you accidentally leave YOUR NEW HIGH TECH BRICK at home.
[/sales pitch]

[Shrub]

Its no rocket science that its a screwdriver banged into the door lock,

No they dont use picking if joy riding but trust me the ones that dont get caught and are stealing high class motors to re-sell do use other methods if they cant steal the keys in the first place, picking is used in some form or another and its getting more widespread in carparks,

The fact is it has been deemed that any discussion regarding any aspect of car locks is in fact only fo rthe advanced forums whether you think its justified or not thats the rules of this site and they wont be changed because someone doesnt agree with them,

[Bud Wiser]

Its no rocket science that its a screwdriver banged into the door lock,

No they dont use picking if joy riding but trust me the ones that dont get caught and are stealing high class motors to re-sell do use other methods if they cant steal the keys in the first place, picking is used in some form or another and its getting more widespread in carparks,

The fact is it has been deemed that any discussion regarding any aspect of car locks is in fact only fo rthe advanced forums whether you think its justified or not thats the rules of this site and they wont be changed because someone doesnt agree with them,

Hey I'm ok with the rules, I was just wondering about it is all. One could argue then that it's ok to teach breaking in to houses but not cars, but don't worry I don't plan on going there. I fully intend to obey all the rules here because it's a great resource. I just couldn't see why all the secrecy because breaking in to cars is so easy if you use forced entry, just to get at what ever is inside the car. In our case we lost several thousands of dollars of camera equipment. And they were in and out very quickly. I just don't see the average car thief going to this length to learn to pick a car lock when all they need is a screwdriver and hammer. I want to learn for the more practicle reasons, like getting in to a difficult locked car with out damaging any thing! So no worries, I'm not trying to make waves, just trying to get on the same page with you on this. Thx

[Krypos]

hey is it common for a keys biting (?) to be stamped right on the key itself?? just realized that teh key i have to one of my deadbolt rpactice locks is stamped with the numbers 56553, and i found the key to be 23221. no doubt this is not a coincidence. that is the keys biting on there, but is it common for this to be there? if you have the key then you dont need to care about picking it open, but if a theif was to come along theyd have topick as normal. although, if someone saw your key once, wrote down the number 56553, then if they had the knowledge to know what it meant, then couldnt they just MAKE* a new key with that biting and then open your lock?

just seemed strange, btu is it normal?

[p1ckf1sh]

Hey I'm ok with the rules, I was just wondering about it is all. One could argue then that it's ok to teach breaking in to houses but not cars, but don't worry I don't plan on going there.

The decisions regarding what is advanced and what can be discussed publicly are made on a case-by-case base. There are a lot of factors that I suppose get into the decision.

Here are two things to consider to make it a bit more clear (at least that is the way I explain it to myself):

The in-depth info on how to pick those regular pin tumbler locks which make up the majority of door locks and deadbolts and padlocks is widely available. There is the MIT Guide, there are guides by Matt Blaze and tons of books and booklets on this topic. Restricting this topic on this forum is like trying to prevent the Titanic from sinking by hauling buckets of water back into the ocean. But picking is not too easy, you need to get some training to do it with success, it is by no means a quick and easy to learn thing.

Bumping for example has been restricted to the adv. section for quite a while, for good reasons. It is much quicker and easier to learn, and it was rightly restricted for these reasons. But when TOOOL went public with this bypass exploit it was kind like with pin tumblers - the info was widely available outside LP101 so it makes no sense to restrict it here anymore.

Car locks and opening techniques are much more diverse. There are different types of locks, different kinds of protections and all that. THIS info is not so widely available everywhere. To gather that stuff outside LP101 you have to go a long way and do lots of research, fill in gaps by yourself, etc. So it makes total sense to restrict that info. Sure, anyone can smash a window or brute-force a lock. But the less noisy and quick opening techniques should not be so widely available, and this is why LP101 restricts access to them.

This is also true for other locks, like high-security disc locks etc.

I fully intend to obey all the rules here because it's a great resource. I just couldn't see why all the secrecy because breaking in to cars is so easy if you use forced entry, just to get at what ever is inside the car.

The forced entry method used in your example woud for instance fail on modern Renault locks, because these rotate freely unless the correct key is in, therefore slamming in a large screwdriver to force it won't work. Other attacks are foiled by the deadlocking and inside door protections. Window smashing can be foiled by an alarm, this may or may not scare off reckless guys. Security, both physical and IT-related, is a on-going race, and while it is certain that there are or will be exploits these should not be published in fat and bold letters to give the small-time thieves a head-start.

[/quote]In our case we lost several thousands of dollars of camera equipment. And they were in and out very quickly. I just don't see the average car thief going to this length to learn to pick a car lock when all they need is a screwdriver and hammer.[/quote]
You failed in one security measure -don't tempt the thief, don't appear to be a valuable target. I suppose the camera case was on the rear seat or something, hm? And why are you leaving cash in the car? No offense, but there ARE NO SINGLE LOCKS/PRODUCTS that give you complete security. For security, you need a concept, and that may include to get Travellers cheques before you travel and leaving no valuables in plain view. Unless there is a huge dog in plain view as well.

I want to learn for the more practicle reasons, like getting in to a difficult locked car with out damaging any thing! So no worries, I'm not trying to make waves, just trying to get on the same page with you on this. Thx

What are practical reasons to get into a modern, well-secured car without damage? Well, whatever, I partially understand you, you'll get there eventually, but it will take some time. No one on here will take you aside and tell you how to beat this or that mechanism.

[Bud Wiser]

You failed in one security measure -don't tempt the thief, don't appear to be a valuable target. I suppose the camera case was on the rear seat or something, hm? And why are you leaving cash in the car? No offense, but there ARE NO SINGLE LOCKS/PRODUCTS that give you complete security. For security, you need a concept, and that may include to get Travellers cheques before you travel and leaving no valuables in plain view. Unless there is a huge dog in plain view as well.

IT WAS HAWAII! Almost every corner was a picture perfect opportunity! My wife and I brought our whole arsenal of camera gear! We lost a lot of pictures too! But was able to get reinbursted with insurance for the equipment. We were in a parking area and not more then 10-20 yeards away to take a few quick pictures. We were not gone longer then 10 minutes? Any one who has ever been a victim to such a thing knows how violated we felt. The most shocking part of the story was learning how wide spread it was over there!

For the life of my I still do not understand why rental companies there do not install car alarms on every car. It really is very, very common in Hawaii! When we reported it to the rental they didn't even bat a eye about it!

Thanks for the heads up! Most appreciated! May be next time I will insist on renting a Renault in hawaii

[p1ckf1sh]

IT WAS HAWAII! Almost every corner was a picture perfect opportunity! [...] We were not gone longer then 10 minutes? Any one who has ever been a victim to such a thing knows how violated we felt. The most shocking part of the story was learning how wide spread it was over there!

In any "tourist trap" there is a large number of thieves, con men and crooks. Think about it, people on vacation are well-equipped with cameras, cash, they are open-minded and laid back, easy prey, not careful, etc. Well, and about violation - the biggest problem for people who have been victim of burglary is the intrusion of their private sphere - someone going through all their stuff. At least it is most common to be a problem. I know people who have been burgled and had ALL their clothes cleaned, bought a new mattress etc.

For the life of my I still do not understand why rental companies there do not install car alarms on every car. It really is very, very common in Hawaii! When we reported it to the rental they didn't even bat a eye about it!

Why should they? An alarm is costing them money when buying the car. The damages due to forced entry is covered by their insurance. And they are not losing any money that way. They were probably handing out a leaflet with the papers, which explained the dangers around Hawaii and suggested not to leave valuables in the vehicle. Not even for 1 minute. Nobody reads it prolly, but they have fulfilled their due diligence.

Another thing - usually factory installed alarm have weak points and attack points which are soon widely known. If you are ever getting a car that is worthy of an alarm, I'd suggest not taking the factory option but have a good aftermarket system installed. That way any potential thief, even a pro, will be at odds on your car. With the factory alarm he will exactly know what to do to circumvent or disable the alarm.

[Krypos]

ok here goes:

i have many family ties to hawaii (including land ownership) anyone familiar with koloa town on kauai, thats me. i have been to hawaii probably a dozen times, the family reunion was there last summer.

the reason why theft is so in hawaii is simple. you are tourists. you will be here for 2 weeks usually, then leave. never coming back. (or at least not fro another year) so if they steal your stuff, youll be gone before they know it, and they are relatively clear. simple mechanics there.

second, there are not car alarms on rental cars for many reasons, one, its hawaii, theyd be going off every 5 minutes and the locals would be p*ssed as helll. two, its more expensive. third: ITS AN ISLAND! it is very hard to export a stolen vehicle off of an island, the rental companies can make money from a car theft, and later the car will be found and returned. 10-1.

also, what do tourists bring with them? money, cameras, cell phones, expensive things in general, and what good is ebay if you cant sell some poor family's camera on it and make money? also, cash, many people just carry cash cuz its easier, especially in hawaii, where many of the smaller places dont have a place to swipe your plastic. etc. i mean, what good is a travelers check at the flea market? so a quick cash theft is easy and profitable.

its all very simple really, when you think about it. now, for the record, i have never participated in any theft or anything, but i just see things (most things) fairly logically.