spool pins

[bpc293]

ok i think i got the spool thing down. i want to check with you guys to make sure I'm right. all the security pin locks i have opened in the past where raked. I'm trying to break my self of raking every thing. OK when the spool hangs up the cylinder turns allot. when you think you have them all set and it doesn't open you go back checking the pins. when you push up on a pin and its stopped dead thats not the spool and when you push on a pin and the cylinder starts to turn in the opposite direction because of the force of you pushing on it thats the spool. now you just loosen the tension slightly and push it up till it hits the shier line. do i understand this right or am i wrong.

[Shrub]

No thats right, youve got it

[bpc293]

what about serrated pins. if the lower pin is serated the first click is the shier line right. because all the lines are below the shier line.

[Vincent-XXI]

You could have a serated bottom pin and a security driver pin, or you could over set the pin.

[pinsetter]

And remember: Several manufacturers use serrated key and driver pins, so you never know by counting clicks unless you're absolutely certain exactly what the pin configuration in the lock is. I've seen several different configurations in locks I've had apart, for instance I've seen these non-standard pin stack configurations:

Ball/Standard/Spool
Standard/Spool
Serrated/Standard
Serrated/Serrated
Standard/Serrated

On top of that, some manufacturers use serrated spool pins also. I've seen these in American locks and Brinks locks.
I've also seen spools cut with enough of a lip to actually feel like a correctly set pin, meaning that they feel solid and do not make the plug move when pressed against.

The bottom line is that you can never know by counting clicks unless you have disassembled the lock and know how many serrations are below the shear line on each pin stack. The differing lengths of the key pins will directly affect this on serrated driver pins.

[bpc293]

is there a certain feel between the the serrated and the real shier line. how about the sound of the click. i have a large best pad lock i cant get open. i found it and i don't know if it can open. i try to get that thing ever so often but i have had no luck. i no the bottom pins are serrated all of them.
i here different tones to the clicking of the pins one is a higher pitch the other is a lower muffled click. is there a distinct sound they make when it a false set.

has anyone ever tried those cheap ease dropping sound amplifiers that have the headphones. like put it against the lock while your picking it.

[pinsetter]

Are you sure the Best has Serrated pins? Most Best locks use SFIC cores. If it is SFIC, more than likely it doesn't have serrated pins, but multiple pins in the stack, especially if it happened to be master keyed. The SFIC has 2 different shear lines, being the control shear and the operating shear line. The two seperate shear lines is what cause these locks to be more difficult to pick because you may be setting some of the pins on the operating shear line and others on the control shear line.

As for the difference in sound of clicks, I find the actual sound to be of minimal help. It's actually more of a feel thing. The serrations are not so hard to press past the shear line, but the pin will be harder to press past the shear line when properly set.

In a post I made WAY earlier I was thinking that the actual sound made a difference, but have since decided that it isn't a reliable indicator. Feel is where it's at! I should also note that when working with security pins you need to have a bit of finesse with your tools. You have to know how to manipulate your torque wrench with a very light touch.

[p1ckf1sh]

As for the difference in sound of clicks, I find the actual sound to be of minimal help.
[...]
In a post I made WAY earlier I was thinking that the actual sound made a difference,

I kinda agree with you regarding the actual picking process. But... I have noticed that there is a really distinct difference in the sounds of click when releasing the tension on the unopened lock. We all have these locks from time to time which we pick and pick and reach a point where we think it should open now but it won't budge. Releasing the tension on those can reveal something about the state of the pins in this situation via the sound. The difference between a released pin set correctly, a falsely set spool and an overset pin is even distinguishable by bare ear.

Try it by deliberately setting a few pins wrong. I can't explain the difference in sound really, but you will notice.

[bpc293]

thanks thats not the first time i asked that but that was the first answer i got.

thanks.

[Bud Wiser]

Wow, this was a great thread! Short but packed with information!

[bpc293]

i just made a cutaway core. i cant believe how far up i was pushing those pins just puting the pick in. i thought making one was a ah so what things but now i'm glad i did.