Key Blank substitution (Impressioning)

[Peter Martin]

Question: Is there a simple way to modify the keyblank which "almost" fits into the keyway?

When impressioning, I find that I often don't have the correct key blank available--and sometimes the local hardware store doesn't have the blank either. There are a number of similar, but not exact, keyways and key blanks (i.e. KW1 and WR5).

In some instances I have to mill a slot wider, or add a slot--essentially modifying the key--to get it to fit.

Is the Dremel tool the best?

I am presuming that the shoulder-to-tip distance is identical. I'm trying to cut down the cost of purchasing a large number of blanks and maximize the number of practice locks.

[Shrub]

We can get universal blanks that will fit a number of locks so i assume you have the same system over there,

I blank with a slacker warding will impression easier anyway as theres more movement,

If you dont have a milling machine then yes a dremel probably is your best bet to do it with,

[digital_blue]

You could always get yourself an EZ Entry machine. At around $11000 US, it's a steal of a deal.

I've tried doing the dremel thing on a couple of Schlage and Best keys but I've always made a terrible mess of it. Mind you, I tend to be the impatient type. I'm sure with a bit of patience and a steady hand you could do it well enough without weakening the key too much. But once you've impressioned the lock, what then? You're either left with a key that is sloppy, or you've gotta get the right blank to dupe it anyway. Not sure how you came out ahead on that, unless entry was the only motive.

db

[Peter Martin]

Generally, for training purposes I'm trying "field-expedient" solutions to cut down my costs, by puchasing fewer blanks and trying them in more locks. But when I find that there isn't a blank available, I'd like to modify something similar. The Lockmasters "Easy-Entrie" would be nice though!

I was thinking that if the blank is brass, a simple cutter on a Dremel might make the groove. (Or, the groove could also be stamped/impressed with a hammer and long chisel--probably not the best solution.)


On a related topic: The profiles for some Dexter, Weiser, Weslock, Titan, Kwikset, Arrow hardware store locksets all appear to have similar keyways--but not exact. Is there a single factory blank which is interchangeable with them all? I'm sure that some enterprising (and cheap) locksmith has probably tried to masterkey all these various brand locks together at some time.

[Shrub]

There should be a universal key that will do them all then if they have the same keyways, they are usually steel keys,

I wont have the same key catalogues as you so you need to have a look through them and look for any key that is prefixed with U or maybe UD for security keys, these tend to be numbers used for universal keys at my supplier in my experiance,

You should also have a key way picture with the blank and you should be able to se if its the keyway you want,

Order a few of them and see if they are right and if so youve got it if not youve got some stock and simply order the others, best bet is to get a couple of likelys and order 5 of each to see which is right, if some arent youve only gained stock and not wasted your money as such,

On the key stock thing, how often do you cut keys? maybe look at your local key cutting place and see which common keys they stock, they may well use some universal ones, you would be safe getting a box of each,

If you dont cut keys often but want to make sure you will be covered you can do what i did when i started,
I bought 10 of each key, the price was compareable to simply buying a few boxes of the common ones and be cut short,
If you sell one of those keys in that 10 youve paid for the full 10 already so your now 1 up as you dont owe anything and have 9 keys left,
Sell 4 of those keys and youve paid for 3 others form differant 10's on the ones that you may never use,

A few days after cutting a few keys on the job or for customers and youve paid for the full lot and are now in profit, youve got 10 or so of each key, they havent cost you anything, you are getting a good idea on the common keys so can order more of just those,

It keeps you from useing sloppy universal keys and also have a key for any lock you come up to, that key can be for an impression or to make a tool out of etc its not cost you anything and you have another 9 possable keys left,

[p1ckf1sh]

I bought 10 of each key, the price was compareable to simply buying a few boxes of the common ones and be cut short,
If you sell one of those keys in that 10 youve paid for the full 10 already so your now 1 up as you dont owe anything and have 9 keys left,

So, how much do you charge for cutting a key? 4GBP? 5GBP? Therefore a blank goes for 40p to 50p? Interesting to know for sure... The hardware stores charge about 6 Euros here, 5 for an aluminium key (bah!) - I knew they were ripping off.

[globallockytoo]

On a related topic: The profiles for some Dexter, Weiser, Weslock, Titan, Kwikset, Arrow hardware store locksets all appear to have similar keyways--but not exact. Is there a single factory blank which is interchangeable with them all? I'm sure that some enterprising (and cheap) locksmith has probably tried to masterkey all these various brand locks together at some time.

Try Silca LW4...it will pass most of those profiles...LW5 is the 6 pin version...

[Delta]

I didn't think that LW profiled blanks are readily available in the states, well under the name of LW4/5 and the reverse anyway?

[globallockytoo]

Question: Is there a simple way to modify the keyblank which "almost" fits into the keyway?

When impressioning, I find that I often don't have the correct key blank available--and sometimes the local hardware store doesn't have the blank either. There are a number of similar, but not exact, keyways and key blanks (i.e. KW1 and WR5).

In some instances I have to mill a slot wider, or add a slot--essentially modifying the key--to get it to fit.

Is the Dremel tool the best?

I am presuming that the shoulder-to-tip distance is identical. I'm trying to cut down the cost of purchasing a large number of blanks and maximize the number of practice locks.

You could use needle files to modify the bullet wards on your blanks....time consuming but definitely cheaper

[Shrub]

I charge between £2.50 for a cylinder key and £3-£.50 for a mortice key, non transponder car keys are £3.50-£4,

Key blank prices have recently gone up "due to the increase in material costs" but i get them as follows,

Standard Yale blanks in steel £0.09p each for 50,
Standard Yale blanks in brass £0.10p each for 50,

Standard mortice blanks in brass around £0.40p ish for 50,

Of course they are cheaper and more expensive than that but you get the idea,