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impressioning bilocks

Picked all the easy locks and want to step up your game? Further your lock picking techniques, exchange pro tips, videos, lessons, and develop your skills here.

Postby spunoff » 20 Jul 2004 5:50

product knowledge conquers all.

you want a challenge, try MUL-T-LOCK or kaba quattro ! ! !
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Bi lock tools

Postby Hojo » 20 Jul 2004 8:07

me and scold are developing a tool to pick them....Im making the prototype...sorry cant say much for security reasons
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Postby Romstar » 20 Jul 2004 18:59

Now this I am just dying to see.

Romstar
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Postby CaptHook » 20 Jul 2004 19:00

:lol:
Did you hear something click?

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well....

Postby Hojo » 21 Jul 2004 6:31

as soon as I get into advanced locks...HINT HINT, Nudge Nudge....hehehe....Ill be able to show them too you, I havent stared construction yet but will soon Im just playing with the idears in my head, we have a pick made but it only fits old gen and its crap :P so we are building a better one
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Postby globallockytoo » 27 Jul 2006 13:29

spunoff wrote:product knowledge conquers all.

you want a challenge, try MUL-T-LOCK or kaba quattro ! ! !



No challenge anymore for Mul-t-lock or kaba quattro....

Just have a look at TOOOL website for a video that shows how to bump open those locks...very easily and quickly
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Postby horsefeathers » 27 Jul 2006 16:12

I gotta hand it to you - bumping a dead two year old dead post has to set some sort of forum record...... :)

regards
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BI-LOCK

Postby Wolfy » 1 Aug 2006 19:57

Ive fully dismantled one and took photo's.
They are remarkably eaisy to pick, BUT the side bars are the pain.
With it dismantled from the hull, appling pressure to the bars directly with fingers, the pins set too too easy.
As for picking assembled no sussess yet.
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Postby Shrub » 1 Aug 2006 21:04

Nope no record, Db bumped one from mid '03 a mere 4 months after the site started, i thought i had seen one bumped that was earlier than that but i cant find it,
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Postby Bud Wiser » 20 Oct 2006 16:22

Sorry if there is a more dedicated thread concerning this topic, but this one may work out good since it's so old may opinions have changed about the newer BiLocks.

Any way I seen a ad today in The Independent Locksmith Journal (Oct 06),
which claims...

You can't PICK or BUMP this Lock.
2 sidebars and no pin stacks.

and 16 million possible codes too.

So what is the popular opinion these days on the BiLock?

Thanks!
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Postby TOWCH » 20 Oct 2006 16:47

I see no reason why bilocks could not be picked. Just because it is unreasonably difficult does not make it impossible. As far as impressioning, top pins are irrelevant, the sidebar will bind the bottom pins. In theory the false notches should bind when the sidebar has been set in all false and real notches.
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Postby globallockytoo » 20 Oct 2006 19:57

TOWCH wrote:I see no reason why bilocks could not be picked. Just because it is unreasonably difficult does not make it impossible. As far as impressioning, top pins are irrelevant, the sidebar will bind the bottom pins. In theory the false notches should bind when the sidebar has been set in all false and real notches.


Whereas I agree with your thinking here....unfortunately, the false gates in the pins will bind the sidebar fingers and cause no further movement in the rotation of the plug. But, if there were only master pins in most of the chambers, it is likely that picking could occur because there will be no false gates.

Standard impressioning techniques will not work here either because there can be no marks produced for each individual cut...due to there being no inline shear line.

Aside from the fact that ther sidebar blocking pin and patent protected blanks together with the patented trigger, makes it almost impossible to produce a suitable blank with which to work.

Bilock is theoretically possible to pick....unfortunately nobody has successfully proved they can...to date. There are a few people even in this forum who think they have the answer...but for some reason are unable to produce the facts or results.

I have worked with the product for over 20 years and know it to be much harder than people allude to.
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Postby Bud Wiser » 20 Oct 2006 20:05

What about bumping? Is the ad's claim true, it can not be bumped? thx
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Postby TOWCH » 20 Oct 2006 23:07

I doubt bumping would work outside of random chance. Master pin the hell out it and anything is possible though. :lol:
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Postby TOWCH » 20 Oct 2006 23:50

An example: You pin a bilock 1,2,1,2,1,2 on both sides with false notches on all the 1 pins at the 2 depth. You cut a key to all 2 cuts. What is keeping the sidebar from fully retracting? The sidebar bottoming out on the false notches right? The true notches are not bottomed out so they still have some play to them. Shouldn't the pins bound by the sidebar bottoming out leave distinguishing impressions? Perhaps these impressions would be too difficult to recognize but conceptually this seems reasonable.

If too faint of marks is a problem, maybe it is necessary to use marker on the key and use probes to lift the pins for insertion and withdrawl of the blank.

Of course, things tend to work much better in theory than execution and I can understand if in practice impressioning is not reasonable, but I think it is worth while isolating the exact reason why problems are unreasonable. It tends to give birth to solutions that would not have otherwise have been thought of. For instance: how much room does the keyway leave at the bottom for a pin and cam?
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