Defeating Bumping

[FiapFiak]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but a big thing you guys are forgetting is that with the newton balls u have there, all of them are the same mass, so the momentum is transfered in such a way that it is "99%" transfered to the next ball.
Care to guess what would happen if those newton balls were different sizes/masses?

It's the same with this anti-bump key concept you have.
The bottom pin has the highest mass, and transfers the energy/momentum to the next group of masses/pins. The two upper pins would both move since they together would approximately equal the mass of the bottom pin.

[Romstar]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but a big thing you guys are forgetting is that with the newton balls u have there, all of them are the same mass, so the momentum is transfered in such a way that it is "99%" transfered to the next ball.
Care to guess what would happen if those newton balls were different sizes/masses?

It's the same with this anti-bump key concept you have.
The bottom pin has the highest mass, and transfers the energy/momentum to the next group of masses/pins. The two upper pins would both move since they together would approximately equal the mass of the bottom pin.

Its not something that I have forgotten. It's one of the primary reasons I am exploring materials other then metals. I believe it is very possible to create an energy absorbing "spring" that functions properly when a key is inserted, but does not allow the driver pin to jump when a bump key is used.

Kinetic energy transfer is the fundamental principle behind both bumping and pick guns. It may be entirely possible to render these devices either completely useless, or to hamper their effectiveness to such a degree that it is no longer feasable to use them effectively.

Romstar

[lokkju]

well, obviously you would use a naturally ferromagnetic material. A good choice for locks would be nickel, as it is relatively soft, naturally ferromagnetic, and it's Curie point is above 600K (620F). The Curie point is the temperature at which it loses it's magnetic properties.
While it is possible to demagnetize, by special manufacturing processes, you can make it near impossible.

[maxxed]

I have an idea that would use the additional energy to engage a relocking pin. If we use a 6 pin cylider and the first 5 pins work normally but the 6th pin does not make contact with the key. It is driven by a lever or pivot making contact with the top pin in the 5th chamber. The 6th chamber would need to have a spring and top pin in the plug and the bottom pin in the upper chamber.
I think that the additional shear line and a second set of pins opperated by one cut could really screw up a bumping attempt

[Romstar]

One of the things we want to avoid is adding extra parts to the lock.

While you can build very complex locks, and they work very well, they do experience a higher failure rate.

Additionally, we have a very large number of existing installations that would benefit from a low cost retrofit rather than replacement..

If everyone could afford Medeco or Abloy they would be on every door.

The purpose of this isn't just to design a mechanism that defeats bumping, thats already been done.

The purpose is to find a way to make bumping ineffective in regular pin tumbler locks without replacing the lock, or costing a lot of money.

Romstar

[Kryoclasm]

Correct, thanks Romstar.

[lokkju]

The only two solutions I've seen that seem simple enough is either some sort of spring replacement (either a complex polymer, or what I suggested earlier), or else magnetic pins... Both are relatively simple to implement, and should not be too expensive

[Romstar]

Magnetic pins quite simply do not work.

Yes, I have tried them, I actually have magnetic pins, and magnets that are pin size.

There isn't enough strength at those sizes to matter.

Skip anything that replaces pins in general, or adds extra lead drivers, or something else similar. Its been tried. The simple solutions have all been tried, and they have all failed.

Balls don't work, magnets, magnetic pins, lead drivers, plastic springs, none of these things have shown any appreciable effect at all.

Now, if you want to keep trying them go ahead, but every three days someone else fires out, "Try magnetic pins", or "Try a ball over the driver", or "Make the driver out of lead", or antimony or some other silliness. Unless you have actually stuck lead pins, or magnetic pins, or something else in a lock you personally could bump, and then couldn't bump after the change it doesn't matter.

Its a lot of wasted brain power on things that simply don't work. If you have a truely unique idea that is different from anything else you have read, and you can't try it on your own, then we would love to hear it.

Otherwise, please try to come up with something else.

[/end rant mode]
Thank you,
Romstar