Picked my first Medeco /Have Questions??

[scorpiac]

Last night I finally popped the Master 930 I have been working on for awhile now on and off. So today with a new found confidence I decided to try a lock I had never even considered trying as I figured "No way, I'm even close to ready for this one". Anyway I decided to give it a try, It's a Master Pro Series 6421 with a Medeco Keymark SFIC with an evil keyway. Long story short I was able to pick the control shear 5 times to remove the core with out very much difficulty!!! So far I've been unable to pick the normal shear line to just open the lock. Is this normal? I always thought it was supposed to be more difficult to pick the control shear? I was using one of my homemade short hooks with a very thin shank and a twist for added flex(made from wiper insert) and a normal twisted tension wrench also made from wiper insert. Below are links to the master padlock I'm talking about and to a pic of what looks to be the same type of core couldn't find a good shot of the evil keyway but I'm sure you guys know what I mean, actually I think I've seen picks of the same keyway on here somewhere before.

http://www.masterlock.com/cgi-bin/produ ... t_id=D6421

http://www.medeco.com/products/images/KMK_IC.jpg

[JackNco]

Congratulations, talking about medecos is advanced access but im sure the mods wont mind me telling you there are tools by Peterson to pick the best SFICs. what tricks medeco have hidden in there i have no idea but if its always picking to the control sleeve im assuming its a second hand lock and the main plug is sticking for some reason. i have a falcon that does the same thing, you can always pick the lock to unlock.

All the best

[scorpiac]

if its always picking to the control sleeve im assuming its a second hand lock and the main plug is sticking for some reason. i have a falcon that does the same thing, you can always pick the lock to unlock.

All the best

Thanks for the reply. Yes that's possible as it is a used lock and I do not have a key for it so I'm not sure if it is fully working or not although I know the release mechanism for the padlock itself is fine as I can trip very easily with the core removed.

[Knowthebird]

I'm not sure this will really help. I got lucky a while back and was able to pick a medeco cam lock. I went out and bought one to see how much of it was luck and how much was skill. It was alot of luck.

Anyways, at the time I did not really understand how the medeco worked, so I did not realise how often I was getting lucky when trying to pick my new medeco with 2 or 3 pins.

One thing I did not know is that when I was swapping the pins in my lock most of them where falling in place so that the control sleeve (I guess thats the rite word) would fall into place once I had the picks elevated correctly.

I found that if I took a rake at them for a good while or placed the pins in the lock so they were far from close to letting the control sleeve fall into place, picking the lock became much more difficult (keep in mind i'm talking about 2 or 3 pins still :-).

I don't know how to answer your question except by saying to try and turn the pins around some and see if u still can rotate them so easily when your picking. It was a big shock to me how much tougher it made it.

Also, I don't know if the mods agree with me, but I think playing with a medeco is great even if you can't pick it. For me it has introduced me to my first security pins, and has forced me to be more dellicate and use spp. I should note, I still can't pick this thing with all six pins, that sucks :-).

[Knowthebird]

Don't know if I can edit my old posts or how, anyways possible noob question...

What are SFICs?

[JackNco]

Small Form Interchangeable Cores, also refered to as I Cores/ICores/I-Cores. "Best" brand design. the figure 8 design shown above with a second shear line as a control sleeve so you can remove the core.

Hope this helps, all the best

[mercurial]

The OP is talking about a Medeco Keymark cylinder - this is quite different to the Medeco Cylinders we are more familiar with, that employ bottom pins which must also rotate to align with a sidebar.

I am pretty sure it is the latter (Medeco with rotating pins), and not the Keymark cylinders that are advanced forum material - as the Keymarks are just a conventional pin-tumbler mechanism.

The advice in the posts above talking of rotating the pins isn't applicable to the Keymark.

The Keymark cylinders are just a conventional pin-tumbler mechanism, with nice tight tolerances....However - they have the most incredibly evil warding - they bring 'paracentric' to a whole new level!!

Navigating most slimline picks (except home-mades...take note!) in a Keymark keyway can be a living nightmare. Throw in a few security pins, and you have a real challenge.

I can't wait to get my hands on one myself!

On the subject of Medeco camlocks - these cylinders only employ bottom pins and a sidebar. These locks do employ the rotating pin mechanism, and a sidebar - and are thus considered advanced forum material I think.

It has been said elsewhere on this forum that these camlocks only require that the pins be rotated into the right positions to open the lock.

Whilst I am sure that this must be the case with the locks described by these members, there are certainly also Medeco camlocks that require the pins to be lifted to the correct height in addition to the correct rotation. They still lack top-pins.

As I have mentioned previously, I do have a cutaway of such a lock, but unfortunately my camera isn't good enough to capture the relevant detail. Once I have access to a suitable camera, I will certainly post pics of this lock.

Specialised Medeco picking techniques/tools aside, I believe these camlocks(specifically the ones that DO require the pins to be both lifted and rotated correctly) are at LEAST as difficult to pick as the original full-size Medeco cylinders(with rotating pins + top pins).

I have never had the opportunity to play with a Medeco camlock which only requires rotation of the pins, but I would assume they are reasonably easy to pick compared to other Medecos, given the pins must merely be rotated correctly & not lifted too.

...Mark

[LockNewbie21]

The key mark employs a drill reisistant bottom spool and standard top spool.

The springs are half the size of normal springs. They key is avoid the warding and pick directly benith the pins as the parcentric ward right below the pins is in my position not to easy to get past.

Biaxles are fun with practice and advnaced.

If i encountered a keymark on a job, This is an occaison i love bumpy keys. As there just a pain.

But none the less a great lock for a house, you get key control and very high pickresistance due to the keyway.

However i still find biaxles and there easy warding a much easier pick I.M.O

[Knowthebird]

I have another queston now. It's been on my mind for a little bit but I will ask now.

What is a keymark lock, and is there also a lock that is key marked? I've heard these terms on the forums but don't know what they mean. Are they two different terms or am I getting confused and its one term meant for something?

In the mean time I will go search the forums.

[mercurial]

I have another queston now. It's been on my mind for a little bit but I will ask now.

What is a keymark lock, and is there also a lock that is key marked? I've heard these terms on the forums but don't know what they mean. Are they two different terms or am I getting confused and its one term meant for something?

In the mean time I will go search the forums.

In the context of this thread, the 'keymark lock' is a range of locks made by Medeco, called the Medeco Keymark.

They are a 'lower grade' of security than the Medeco locks which employ rotating pins, and seem to be targeted at a market which cannot afford the rotating-pin type cylinders. It provides security via key-profile control, an it also has really nasty warding - manouvering a pick in these keyways can be a real nightmare.

Here is a link - http://www.medeco.com/products/products ... ry_ID=166&

...Mark

[SmokieD]

I have another queston now. It's been on my mind for a little bit but I will ask now.

What is a keymark lock, and is there also a lock that is key marked? I've heard these terms on the forums but don't know what they mean. Are they two different terms or am I getting confused and its one term meant for something?

In the mean time I will go search the forums.

In the context of this thread, the 'keymark lock' is a range of locks made by Medeco, called the Medeco Keymark.

They are a 'lower grade' of security than the Medeco locks which employ rotating pins, and seem to be targeted at a market which cannot afford the rotating-pin type cylinders. It provides security via key-profile control, an it also has really nasty warding - manouvering a pick in these keyways can be a real nightmare.

Here is a link - http://www.medeco.com/products/products ... ry_ID=166&

...Mark

I thought Key Marks were the most advanced Medeco? Your post inclines that their is an even higher version of Medeco.

Lower would be a reg. Medeco.

Then a Biaxial.

Then a Keymark? Correct me if Im wrong.

[zeke79]

order of highest security first.

Medeco m3 (biaxial design still present)
Biaxial std locks
Dimple style key cams
Original medeco
Biaxial cams
std original cams
keymark

Keymark is the lowest security line of medeco.

[Mr. Glass]

This is kind of off topic, but was just wondering if SFIC's have any disadvantages security wise (special vulnerabilities...etc) over OEM hardware from the SFIC manufacturer?

[JackNco]

generaly speaking im yet to see or hear about a security pin in one. but i once again could be wrong, ive only taken a best and a falcon apart.

[WOT]

The Keymark doesn't have the features Medeco locks are generally known for. It's a standard pin and tumbler designed to fit into locksets designed to accomodate a BEST type SFIC core.

http://www.medeco.com/products/products ... ry_ID=166&