New pick tip

[raimundo]

The diamond (half diamond) shape pick is mis named, since it got its name from the now defunct diamond shape, as in the diamond suit in a deck of cards, with the useless or worse bottom half cut off. The half diamond is the pick that is closest in design to the teeth of a key. with a camming surface to lift the pins. An oblique angle like ^ will have a lot of camming power to lift pins, but a more acute angle like /\ will be a much less efficient cam for lifting pins, This is GOOD. a sharp angle like this is less efficient for lifting the pins, and the pins resistance to being lifted is amplified. Therefore, it necessary to sand the camming surfaces very well to reduce friction to the minimum. this narrower lifting pick will impinge less on the adjacent pins. The resistance to being lifted by the pick comes from the springs which are usually pretty weak anyway, and also from the binding caused by the tensor on the pin caught between the plug and the cylinder. This factor is controlled by the tensor and the person picking. BECAUSE OF THE AMPLIFIED RESISTANCE CAUSED BY A LESS EFFICIENT CAM, THE FEEL OF THE PICK IS AMPLIFIED. you can get better feed back as you lift against serrated (ringshank) pins and you can feel the shear of the pins hit the shear line better. If you make one of these, be sure to sand it very well, and round off the sharp edge including on the pick tip to prevent it from cutting into the pin.

[Pickey]

Hey i've made this exact type of pick a while back. I was sure that it was fairly popular but i could never find it or a name for it so i just ended up callnig it the steep diamond
Pretty much everything rai said is right, it has awesome feedback and it's a breeze feeling out the security pins and hitting the shear lines. Don't expect to make one of these and be a pick-god, they still require a bit of practice and skill to use.

[CurioPiKXzz]

good point there, about the efficiency of the cam, vs the feedback on the pick, but just to raise one question - wouldnt a much less efficient cam also reduce the diamond's effectiveness/suitability as a rake? that would mean effectively trading one part of the equation of the diamond (rake + pick) for the other part.

but then, on the other hand, i do like ur idea of de-creasing the efficiency of the cam, for more effective feedback. How about a compromise like this then?: have the diamond work more like a 'feeler' (is this the proper term???) pick one way, and a rake the other way. Use two different angles - the steeper angle for the cut of the diamond coming out, and the shallower angle for the diamond going in. Would this work, or more importantly, be good? (appreciate ur feedback, folks. I am really just a newbie - but i am interested in discussing and learning more about the craft).

[raimundo]

I thought of that when I made the pick, but since its an experiment and I already know what the more efficient cam works like, there was not any real incentive for me to make my experiment that way. Not to say the combination isn't a good idea, but I made it as a feeler.

[raimundo]

One of our members pm'd me, he had one of the 'new petersen' picks that was a steep diamond stuck in a complicated keyway. he remembered that I had posted something about releasing a stuck pick and was asking me for advice. I don't mention his handle as he hasn't posted about it and may not want to. Apparently petersen is selling a set of three picks for $38 and their main utility is the thin shaft, two are a hook and a pigtail rake, the other one which had gotten stuck was a steep diamond,
Apparently someone at petersen has been reading the site and got it half right, the reason this pick was stuck was that it was sharp edged, not rounded and smoothed as is necessary for this type of pick, when the keyway is complex and the pick is not smooth and rounded, you can get into trouble.
Our member has since reported to me that he got the new pick unstuck from the expensive lock he had with oil and another pickshaft to move it. hes now going to sand it as it needs to keep it from encountering these problems.

[Afisch]

As for the picks which are steep on the front angle but less so on the back for withdrawing the pick. Ive seen one somewhere and i think they do exist. Cant say if it was a comercial or a home made job though sorry.

[xboxteen01]

i made a homemade pick like that,its a diamond with steep but proportional side

[blake1803]

Serendipitous that I read this thread just now, I was just about to start a thread about those "Deep Cut Access" Peterson picks. Do you think the sharp edge is something that light filing and sanding could solve, or did Peterson just get it wrong?

[raimundo]

petersen steel is hard to sand, but you need to remove the sharp edges, try a dremel, its not often I recommend a dremel as they can be very aggressive and sand too deep on some steel, but with petersen steel, you may need one.

[quicksilver]

I noticed that some of the Petersons are VERY thin (perhaps less than .020) and with a degree on intensity could easily be caught up in a key-way.

This IS a serendipitous topic....I made a steeper diamond and noticed the same issue. [What occurred to me is if the back portion was flat (90 degree) one may be able to start in a pin group that had little room behind the last pin or more commonly, could fit a tight pin-group.] Was there even a purpose to a "full diamond" design? Seems like there must have been but I can't think of any......

[raimundo]

full diamond if they were ever made? would have been more useful than a ball pick, as a ball pick will fill a double sided wafer lock in a way that obstructs the movement of the wafers more than the full diamond would, and if making a full diamond for these double sided wafer locks, I would make it steeper than a commercial half diamond, but bear in mind that there is a 'too steep' that you should not go past.

[Wrenchman]

I saw your thread Ray, and thought I would try and make one, I did´nt finish it because I wanted you to take a look at it, and see if me mountain pick(if that´s the name) were alright, or/and could you clear up on where to file down, Top, Buttom, Ect. Thanks.

Did I screw it, or is this MP going to work?



Wrenchman

[raimundo]

that is even steeper than I had concieved, but you need to use it to know its working properties, I think I might make one like it and try it out, what I was thinking was steep was /\ like that. still yours is interesting and it would not be right for me to say anything about it until I try the same thing. it does have the sanding necessary to prevent it becoming stuck so its gotta work well somewhere, I wonder how it would work on a medeco, it could certainly set the angles, but might have trouble with the no angle cuts. thanks for showing that and giveing me more ideas.

[Kaellman]

I usually leave the cams without polish and make most other parts of the pick mirrorish, except for the handle. I dont want any feedback from the pick sliding in and out or touching any other pins. It works very well. Iv experimented some with handle surfaces and a medium to fine sandpaper does the job for me.

[raimundo]

So I'll make a copy of it today, what locks are you picking with it, of course with you in sweden and me in minnesota, theres little chance Ill find a similiar lock Unless theres one on the door of the american-swedish institute, We have a lot of swedish and more norwegian culture here in minnesota, Im currently reading a book by henning mankell, have you heard of him? it's called 'the dogs of riga'