Jammed lock problem

[Benvox2]

Heres a pic of the back of the jammed lock.


http://i18.tinypic.com/624iqft.jpg



Massive pic, link and all that

[Raymond]

I cannot resist throwing in my two cents worth of idea to the general fray. Probably what is keeping the key in is the first pin. It is located between the outside and the first upper pin chamber. If the firsts two cuts on the key are deeper (or equal to) than the third cut, try this. File the pointed ramp away between the cuts on the exposed part of the key and as much as you can reach up to the face of the lock. With this relieved, drive the key into the lock. What will be getting bent is that part of the key not filed away in front of the third cut. Then after fully inserting the key, it may work again. The question still remains about how many chambers have top pins and springs and no botom pins. Drilling the top chamber or bouncing are the only other reasonable methods.

On another note I am amazed that so few people are afraid to drill a small hole on top. The holes are easily patched by thread tapping a very small distance, screwing in a screw of the same thread, cutting it off. filing and polishing until invisible.

[Benvox2]

Yes peoples 2 cents is what im after, thanks!

Your exactly right about the first pin being in between the outside and the first upper pin chamber thus sealing the key inside while the other pin is keeping the cylinder inside.

There are 6 chambers all up the first 2 (closest to key hole) have a top and bottom pin and spring each but thats all, the other 4 chambers are empty as I was using this for practice.
Theirs alot of metal between the chambers and the top of the lock because its a big oval cylinder so im a little worried about my in accurate drilling!

Ive evan considered firmly hitting the key with a hammer in order to destroy the pins and get it all out of their as I have plenty of spare pins.

Thansks!

[skold]

Yes peoples 2 cents is what im after, thanks!

Your exactly right about the first pin being in between the outside and the first upper pin chamber thus sealing the key inside while the other pin is keeping the cylinder inside.

There are 6 chambers all up the first 2 (closest to key hole) have a top and bottom pin and spring each but thats all, the other 4 chambers are empty as I was using this for practice.
Theirs alot of metal between the chambers and the top of the lock because its a big oval cylinder so im a little worried about my in accurate drilling!

Ive evan considered firmly hitting the key with a hammer in order to destroy the pins and get it all out of their as I have plenty of spare pins.

Thansks!

If you have a drill press you could use a punch and punch the retainers in then drill, then seeing as it is a practice lock you could tap it and use grub screws as retainers.

And/Or:

You could hit the key with a hammer, but I assume you have one complete chamber (driver and lower pins + spring) and one with just the driver and the spring, the pin in the first chamber being in active in keeping the cylinder fixed, thus meaning you would be attempting to break a pin. Correct?

Try saying that in one sentence!

Anyway if you want to "brute force" the cylinder back in, you would be better off using a bench vice on the outer edges of the cylinder, which in turn pushes the cylinder back into the correct position.

I have done this when i wasn't thinking once too, I did as I described above and it worked with little effort.

Just one warning, as this method is a little on the destructive side, it would be wise to expect some slight scratches and slight reaming of cylinders both in the housing and the cylinder.

[stilte]

If you look at my posts, a few months ago, I had the exact same problem with an oval cylinder due to a sneeze during repinning or something.

I tried everything that has been suggested, and more. Nothing worked, the lock is still jammed. The only thing left to do is to drill it.

Or you could do like I did... leave it jammed so you can swear at it whenever you see it, and to remind yourself of a lesson learned.

[stilte]

And don't try destroying the pins by hitting the key. you will end up with a bent or broken key.

[stilte]

Wow I've been away for nearly half a year.

Forgot that there's no edit button.

Anyone missed me?

Nah.

Ok here you go.

Have fun:

viewtopic.php?t=16496

If you were wondering, no the guitar string didn't work. First one I got was too thick, the other one was too thin to use properly. After that I left the country and gave up.

[skold]

Guitar strings would of been way too flimsy, especially with some of the springs they stick into those Lockwoods, you could of made your own 'L' pick and it would of done the job nicely.

To the OP,

You could also use a solid plug follower or an old cylinder and hammer the plug out from the back.

[Benvox2]

Yea well im not worried about they key because i have a spare and these locks are only for practising, but maybey hammering from the back woulf be better?

It is a sticky problem no doubt!

[skold]

Sure, hammer it out of the back.

Even if you were to try hammering the key, you would end up bending it before you even damaged the pins.

[Raymond]

Benvox2, Someone suggested to press the plug in with a vise. This is not a good idea. Even with only two pins, one in a chamber with a spring that is probably not at the corret shear line, forcing the plug will more likely deform the holes in the plug and cylinder. This would be trying to shear a brass pin with a brass wall. If the pins are nickle-silver you will definitely ruin he whole lock.

I still suggest filing away as much of the peak between cuts as you can reach up to the face of the plug, heat the key to soften and remove any tempering, and knock the key into the cylinder plug. I went back and looked at the first picture you posted and it appears that the first two cuts are the same depth. Getting rid of the peak between them will allow the key to continue working. Hitting the key will only deform the key by mashing off the remaining peak and probably have no ill effect on the plug or cylinder.

Even drilling out the first pin that is binding will be making a hole where there is not supposed to be one. Sure, it can be patched, but it is not worth the trouble.

Go for the gold! Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Benvox2]

Im sure the pins are brasss and the lock is metal so I was hoping it would only destry the pins and maybe the key which I don't mind.

I really don't want to damage the holes of the plug/cylinder either!

Thanks!

[skold]

Your lock is brass.

[globallockytoo]

skold is in da house. You da man!

Looks like a el cheapo 570 cylinder. Cost less than $5.00. Probably explains why most recommend chucking the whole thing.

Somebody recommended....rapping the cylinder on a bench...whilst using light tension on the key....good suggestion.

This scenario happens to VERY many apprentices at least once in their professional career....and is part of the learning curve....

Just a possibility....if the cylinder is pinned to all 6 chambers...then there will be no problem with the driver pins jamming in the rear of the plug (barrel)

the only problem as I see it from the descriptions (and I havent looked at the pics yet) is the fact that the key is jammed......have you tried breaking the head off the key and forcing it through from front to back...and out the back of the barrel?

This will enable you to remove any obstruction from the profile and then you can quicly and easily rap the cylinder open.

[globallockytoo]

Depending on the depths of the first few cuts.....you might want to take a C4B or LW5, cut it down on a code machine (laser cut) to about a 5 depth.

After snapping the head on the stuck key...use the new key as your punch and tap it into the profile....should push through the rear of the plug.

Alternatively, you could try and do the same thing with a C4BR (I forget the Silca equivalent) and try from the rear of the barrel.