Question about key duplication

[dodgechargerrt30]

Hello, In my locksmithing course i am required to duplicate a papiz padlock key by hand, i have recieved the blank, the original, the bench vice and now im having a problem

the files they gave me seem nice but the instructions say to cut the duplicate using either the smoking method or the marking method and i use the sharpie to mark it and everything but im not sure what files to use when

it says the triangular file should work but it cuts a Triangle only so therefor theres no space for the pin to fall in line with the shear line when i cut just a narrow triangle ...am i missing something. I know i am

but i would like advice on duplicating a key by hand

if there are tutorials somewere i would appreciate you telling me where


thanks in advance,

Marwan

[TigerDragon]

Are you duplicating the key directly, or are you trying to impression a lock?

If you're duplicating, try using the warding file to make the depth cuts. You can widen the cut out to an angle with the triangle file. If you see brass on the original while filing STOP and make sure you aren't cutting too deep. You don't want to damage the original.

If you're impressioning, then get a pippin file if you can. If you can't, try a square or round file instead. I bought a set of files that included a square file and a round file from Home Depot for about ten dollars. I ordered my pippin file from Foley-Belsaw (since that's the course I'm actually taking.)

Hope this helps in some way.

[dodgechargerrt30]

I have a set called Great Neck 6 Peice Needle File Set and i dont know wich one is wich

[TigerDragon]

A round file is round as viewed directly down it from one end. A square file is square as viewed directly down it from one end. A warding file is rectangular as viewed directly down it from one end, but mostly looks like a typical file (flat). A pippin file is usually described as "tear drop shaped" but the one I received was more like a flattened tear drop.

[dodgechargerrt30]

ok so the warding one is the small rect shaped one ... the one that looks like it would be used to cut a bit key right?

[TigerDragon]

ok so the warding one is the small rect shaped one ... the one that looks like it would be used to cut a bit key right?

Yes. You can do your cuts with that to depth, then widen the cuts out by setting it into the cut you made and applying sideways pressure. Don't cut any deeper, just widen it. Then use the triangle to angle it out until the angles match the slopes of the original key.

Good luck, and post picks when you finish if you can

[freakparade3]

Tiger asked the most important question here. Are you impressioning or duplicating by hand? If you are duplicating be hand the warding file described is the best. you smoke the orininal key and then clamp it to the key blank with vice grips. File the cuts until you see the smoke being taken off the original key. It's very important that you keep your file level while cutting.

[dodgechargerrt30]

Thanks for the help guys i appreciate it and i will try to post pics when im done

if its still unclear Yes i am duplicating by hand at the moment i have not gotten into the impressioning part of locksmithing yet


thanks again,


Marwan

[New-York-Locksmith]

Yeah I Agree - Keep On Trying May Be You'll Got Results Soon

[raimundo]

What locksmith course has papaiz locks, and is that the cruciform key or just a normal pintumbler key

[dodgechargerrt30]

its just one lock they sent me its a cutaway cr50 papaiz


im enrolled in the Penn Foster Course

[Rodfather23]

I had problems when I tried to duplicate a key by hand....granted it was only for fun, but if you run into problems as I did, raimundo made a great suggestion on the thread I was posting my problem on, and that was to cut it almost all the way down and impression the rest.

I also had probs with the smoke on the key rubbing off to easy, so sharpie might work a little better. I was using a round 1.8th inch hack saw blade though.

It should pretty easy to impression the lock after you get it cut pretty close, and it will give you a heads up on impressioning.

[ObiWonShinobi]

(Yeah, I noticed the "by hand" in the first line of your question)

The triangle cuts deep and fast.
Cut One on each side if you have to and one down the middle
CAREFULLY! Dont even cut all the way down... just in case
Some people will tell you otherwise..."go for it"
but being a beginner.... Id say don't rush into it.
only do what YOU are comfortable doing, don't rush.
better to err on the side of cation.

then use the other files to make it look nice, and make fine adjustments

[nylocksmith]

I had bad experience with the triangle.
Would start with something else

[raimundo]

heres what I would do. use a 1/8inch chainsaw sharpening file, (that the little one) it will cut a U groove and you should take that down to almost the bottom of the cut you are trying to duplicate, and still look like this U

then you can take the flat edge of the triangle file and use it to slope the edges outward for inserting and removing the key.

the advantage of this is that the eighth inch file will center the bottom of the cut and set its depth without drifting off center like a thicker round file might. this sets the depth and cuts the bottom, or near it.

The final refinement is to final shape it by the impressioning method, which should bring it into spec.