Freeing stuck old lock

[selfish]

I need some help from the elder lock pickers amongst the group.

So my girlfriend just bought a house built in 1926 that still has all the possibly original hardware on the interior doors. (bit key?) There is only one key that we know of, and when she moved in it was stuck in one of the doors. She is refinishing all the hardware so wants this key and lock removed.

I know a little about locks as long as they are fully functional, and since I'm mentally deficient I figured it just needed a little lubricant and some brute force. You know what happens next - half of the key snapped off. Not enough to get the assembly out, just enough to ensure I looked really stupid.

I can see the bit part of the key, it is stuck at the 7 o'clock position, angled towards the edge of the door. When I wiggle the key the lock bolt moves a tiny bit.

What now?

[Wrenchman]

I need some help from the elder lock pickers amongst the group.

D_B, I think he is talking to you!

On a serious note, you should call a Lockmith or just pull out the key with a key extractor!



Wrenchman

[globallockytoo]

A key extractor will not work in this case. Key extractors are designed for pin tumbler/wafer tumbler locks.

Depending on the type of lock, that particular period used alot of 1920's 1930's mortice rimlocks. The ones with longer bit type keys. Generally the Russwin or Lane brand were the most common Sometimes, depending on the location, there were Mccallums brass mortice locks installed, with brass keys that used different shaped wards to mix up their combinations. Generally these were two or three lever locks. The common problem was that the key bit would jam on the wardings of the locks. If the head and half the shaft has broken, you might need to use a pair of lockable long nose pliers to grip onto the shaft to enable you to force the key around.

If you can see the bit (blade) at 7 o'clock, you will need to turn the key counter clockwise to withdraw it. I suspect, if it has side wards that these are hanging inside the lock body causing the jam.

[jgencinc]

would tapping on the strike help loosen whatever is stuck?
You said she is replacing the hardware. If that's the case, can't you cut the key flush and pull the hardware out?

[selfish]

She is refinishing, not replacing the locks, and I did try tapping all movable parts while wiggling the key - no dice.

globallockytoo - There is enough shaft sticking out that I can get it with a pair of vice-grips. Do you think that I should be able to just force it?

And seriously, where is the fun in calling a locksmith?

Thanks for all your help guys, this should prove to be a fun learning experience.

d

[maintenanceguy]

Don't force anything.

If the door's not locked, remove the lock and take off the cover plate. You can then see what the problem is.

If the door is locked, try removing the hinge pins and you can probably get the door out of the frame and then remove the lock.

[Wrenchman]

Haven't fixed it yet?

Why don't you take some pictures of it, and then let us have a look!

Btw would WD40 help, if something it stuck?



Wrenchman

[globallockytoo]

If the key shaft is protruding into the door.....it will not matter if you remove the hinge pins and pull the door off. The lock will still be stuck in the door. If you gently persuade the key to turn, you could break it off even further enabling the bit (flag) to drop inside the keyway. This will allow the lock to be picked or another key to be impressioned. OR you might be lucky enough to get the bolt open.

I think you can be confident that a little force is okay.

[lockpicker69]

i have read this thread over a few times and i still cant work out if the door is locked or open, either way my answer would still be roughly the same, some pics of the door would be nice first though, and the end of the key which you snaped off

[selfish]

Sorry, the door is open, but on this style lock you cannot remove it with the key sticking out. I will try to get some pics tonight to post.

[mercurial]

I would first try to remove the key from the lock - if it is at the 7'oclock position, you need to return it to the 6'oclock position.

As globallockytoo said, it needs to be turned slightly counter-clockwise, using vicegrips to grip the key's shaft. With the key bit aligned with the keyway, it should take little force to withdraw the key. This should take a lot less force compared to trying to force the key to turn.

With the key removed from the door, you can then remove the lock from the door (given, as you have stated that the door is open).

You can then open the lock and investigate why the key will not turn.

It is possible that this key is NOT the correct key for the lock, even though it is in there. Maybe this is why the key got jammed - somebody trying to make the wrong key work in the lock?

You will be able to establish this, once you can look inside the lock. This is a lever lock, and if it is of the types described by globallockytoo it should be really easy for you to figure out why the key won't work once you have it open.

Hope that helps,

Mark

[Lorek]

Just out of curiosity how did the lock feel before it broke. Was it just plain stuck. If you tried pulling the door up a little did it make it easier? I've serviced a couple houses now from that era and the last two had problems unrelated to the lock itself. The door had started sagging because either the house had shifted or the hinges were old and worn out which put excessive weight on the lock mechanism. The top hinge typically has more weight put on it over time then the bottom or middle hinge so it tends to wear quicker if that's the case. If the problem does originate in the locking mechanism itself it could be difficult getting the key out without breaking the lock further if it is important to you to use the same old locks i'd suggest calling a locksmith out that knows what he's doing. I've only seen a couple nonfunctioning bit key locks come in and they were very difficult to fix because the customer had lost parts that had popped out when they originally cracked the case open.

[globallockytoo]

Just out of curiosity how did the lock feel before it broke. Was it just plain stuck. If you tried pulling the door up a little did it make it easier? I've serviced a couple houses now from that era and the last two had problems unrelated to the lock itself. The door had started sagging because either the house had shifted or the hinges were old and worn out which put excessive weight on the lock mechanism. The top hinge typically has more weight put on it over time then the bottom or middle hinge so it tends to wear quicker if that's the case. If the problem does originate in the locking mechanism itself it could be difficult getting the key out without breaking the lock further if it is important to you to use the same old locks i'd suggest calling a locksmith out that knows what he's doing. I've only seen a couple nonfunctioning bit key locks come in and they were very difficult to fix because the customer had lost parts that had popped out when they originally cracked the case open.

1. The door is open.
2. Making replacement parts is a part of locksmithing and for most lever type locks, not too difficult. This is why a locksmith professional is sought after.

I realise there are many DIY'ers out there who really want to explore the world of locksmithing as a hobby, which is probably why they come to sites like this and ask their questions. I dont blame them. I'll even try to help them with their questions but sometimes it might be cheaper and quicker to actually call a locksmith professional.

[selfish]

*The peasants rejoice*

WD-40 and vice grips seemed to help, but I was getting frustrated so I bent a piece of metal and wiggled it around inside too.

I got the key out and pulled the lock from the door. It turns out that the lock had a broken piece inside. There are two flat metal springs that look like they hold the lever in place. One was broken and sticking in front of the key.

Thanks for all of your help guys.

david

[mercurial]

Great to hear you succeeded!

I recall you mentioned that this key is the only lever lock key present in the entire house.

In case you aren't aware, provided the bit of the key is still intact, a new key can be cut from what you have left. If you are lucky, the other locks will be keyed alike & you will now have a working key for the other doors.

This is a much cheaper solution than having keys made for the locks from scratch.

If the lock you have removed is from an interior door where security is unimportant, you can remove the lever that has the broken spring from the lock and replace it with some kind of spacer. You should then have a operable lock again. Given the age of the hardware, I would assume that getting a new lever+spring would be difficult.

...Mark