CISA - approach (conventional key cylinders)

[zikmik]

Hi mates,
As starter conventional key cylinders are my prime subject.
I analyse CISA 087 series cylinder

http://www.cisa.com/flex/cm/pages/ServeBLOB.php/L/EN/IDPagina/2051


I have no result with half diamond and snake pick so I decide to try with half ball.
It`s well-know that half ball is using for picking wafer locks, but despite that I try it and I was astonish.

I placed half ball pick approximately 5-10 degree at most anti-clockwise and strong rake 3-4 times until I feel that pins was jammed,
after that I align pick and rake softly several times more and cylinder was picked.
This kind of picking take 10-20 second at the most and works all the time.



I know that best approach is the one which open the cylinder, but is this common one?

[luponero]

Hi, i have opened a cisa cilinder i have used only diamond firts in manipulation and next with a strong raking

[weerwolf]

These cilinders are the one our company uses for master key systems.
They are easy to pick. I usually use a hook pick and rake them open.

One thing to note about this cilinder. Cisa uses thier logo on the front of the cilinder for the Pratic (this one) , their higher quality locks (Cisa Logo , and Cisa Quality) use the same keyway , but the name will be written on the front of the cilinder. These cilinders have spool pins.

[zikmik]

Hi again,
I improve my half ball picking method and now on I need around 5 second to open any side of cylinder in any direction.
The thing that confuse me is that I need much more time to open with other picks.

Half Ball around 5sec
Snake pick 10-15sec
Half Diamond max 20sec
Hook pick more than 30sec

Can someone confirm this by raking same cylinder with different picks?

[Eyes_Only]

I think these times are relative to different circumstances while you are picking lock. Everybody has their favorite tool to use with their favorite method and depending on the quality of the lock along with wear and tear on it it might be hard to nail down a definite time required to open any lock by everyone.

[next]

Hallo everybody!
In this moment I´m fighting vs. CISA 082 series. It´s not on sell by now, but is the same cylinder in the past.
I have to tell you that yours is lower quality, because the "first class" CISA cylinders comes with the logo and the name (/// CISA). I guess your cylinder just wear spooled pins. And that reason makes it quite easy to pick.
In the first class, they include serrated upper and botton pins, mixed between the spooled pins. A great difference, isn´t it?
I have dismantled mine, because I didn´t understand the feeling it gives me.
I will broadcast pictures if you think this will help you to see them.

[Fredmad]

The Cisa cylinder is normally built with diabolo drivers. That is the reason why when you pick it the core turns a little. That means that all the normal drivers are in right position and the diabolo pins lock in the shear line.
You can find 2 different kind of Cisa with the same keyway:
- one with 6 cuts
- one with 9 cuts
A 9 cuts with 4 diabolo drivers with lowest cuts near near highest cut is more difficult to pick than a 6 cuts with 1 or 2 diabolo drivers.
I don't know if you know that Cisa is the same cylinder that Abus first price and Abus C83.

[zikmik]

Maybe for my bad english I was misunderstood,

When I start this topic I test half ball on CISA but since I am from eastern Europe
I try to pick ELZETT and result are the same, half ball is faster...
Conventional EURO key cylinders are lower quality but most commonly used so I chose it.

I need to find out is half ball pick, commonly use for wafer locks, can faster pick then snake or half diamond?
I agree with Eyes_Only but use your favorite euro cylinder and try to pick with half ball and tell me the result.

[fusion]

I'm having trouble with a similiar lock entry shape so I'll try that method.
Are you familiar with FAB locks?
They have nice technical pics on their website (to my advance )

[exspook]

you need to take the FAB apart to see, it has serated top pins, these are nasty for picking as they give a false read and with over tension the thin ribs will crush.

They are well engineered locks and hard to impression without damage.

the keyway is simple with a slimline pick, but the technique requires featherlight tension.

happy picking