Impressioning lever locks...I miss Shrub

[keyless 1]

Hello all!

Last summer Shrub was trying to help me open a lock but I had to take some time off because of my busy season ( I can't let this little project bankrupt me now can I? ) When I tried to get in touch with him yesterday I realized he had left this forum permanently!

I'm hoping someone might have some advice for me...I'd be glad to share all of the communication that went back and forth between Shrub and myself.

Here's the short version...

I have a 6 lever lock that I have been trying to open for quite a while now. After talking back and forth about picking Shrub asked if I had tried impressioning. Even though I do have some experience working with pin tumblers I'm no locksmith...I just have this 1 lock I'd like to open and levers are relatively new to me.

This will be the third attempt at impressioning and because I can't find a suitable material that is already the correct height and width I have to use existing key blanks and make them thinner. The filing process takes about 45min per key so I'm trying to get more information before I screw this one up as well.

Here are some images of the lock and the last (second) keyblank ( don't laugh...at least not in your reply ) complete with lever marks....

http://s193.photobucket.com/albums/z92/keyless_1/

I assume impressioning is done the same way for lever locks as pin tumbler locks but here's the trouble...

No matter how far down I file, the levers will always leave at least a slight mark. Could this be something unique to this lock? Instead of watching for the point where the marks stop appearing should I be looking for something subtler?


Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Michael

[JackNco]

the only type pf lever lock that looks like to me is a safety deposit box.... but yes lever locks will leave a mark no matter how low u cut them. or at leas i assume they would.

then again i have never tried lever locks or successfully impression ed any lock.

Do some research and buy a lock of the same model then rip it to bits.

John

[lunchb0x]

when impressioning lever locks dont you have to cut off the part of the key which would throw the bolt, otherwise the key wont turn enought to mark?

[paulvalente]

Hey Jack,

Doesn't that look a lot to you like a Lowe and Fletcher Z series key (Different handle obviously)? It reminds me very much of a ZL or ZF (can't for the life of me remember which.

Paul

[JackNco]

nope, but i would have to be familiar with them in to first place

[keyless 1]

when impressioning lever locks dont you have to cut off the part of the key which would throw the bolt, otherwise the key wont turn enought to mark?

In this case, at least, the plug turns in exactly the same way a pin tumbler turns. If the key turns the plug and lifts the levers to the correct height the lock will open because the plug throws the bolt.

Or at least I think that's how it works...any thoughts?

Again, if anybody has any comments/advice regarding the marks left on a key when impressioning lever locks I'd be grateful. I've read everything I can find regarding lever locks ( I even followed JackNos link to look for patent drawings )but so far I'm not finding what I need.

Should I be looking for the point where there are absolutely no marks whatsoever or should I be looking for something else? I understand (despite the key blank photos) that I should be looking at the marks on the top of the key and I'm depositing carbon on the key using a candle so that I can clearly see the marks. They just won't stop appearing!!!!

For the record, the lock is made by Diebold.

Thanks!

[keyless 1]

hmmm..too bad you can't edit posts on this forum.

The lock is a Diebold that is Patented 1877.

[freakparade3]

hmmm..too bad you can't edit posts on this forum.

The lock is a Diebold that is Patented 1877.

Semd me a PM with your email address. I may be able to help you.

[keyless 1]

Just a quick update...

I've read many times that impressioning a lever lock is done the same way as impressioning a pin tumbler. From what I've read in the McColl guide and from my on experimentation - in regards to this particular lock - it is impossible to impression based on the information one gets from looking at the lever marks left on a key blank. The marks will continue to appear on the top of the flag until you've filed the key to the point that there isn't a flag left!

My common sense told me that in the beginning but this a new type of lock to me and who am I to argue with the many other posts and online guides that I've read.

1st, I have no way of knowing whether the levers are open or closed because I haven't been able to find any information on the lock.

2nd, when I turn the lock counter-clockwise I have no access to the post side of the levers. There's just a completely smooth surface at the point where the lock stops turning - right at 3:00.

Without being able to feel the post side of the levers one could never get a sense of how the levers are cut.

I assume this applies to all lever type locks that might somehow block the post side of the levers. PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG!

I plan to do a drawing today of how I imagine the lock is constructed based on feeling around inside with tools and the information left on the keyblank.

Thanks again to all who have offered advice...please keep it coming! Until then, I'll just keep on working at it and see what else develops.

m

[ax0n]

Somewhere, I have a whole pile of these Diebold locks just like that one. I just moved recently and they're buried somewhere. If I can find them I'll tear a few apart and show you what you need to be looking for.

[keyless 1]

Thanks for the offer to help, ax0n. It's sooo hard to be patient...

[Svaroh]

i dont know if this is a dead thread, but i was looking for info on impresioning when i came across it. i have a vault downstairs that was made by the diebold company around the turn of the century. i made a key for it out of aluminum on my mill. i had the advantage of being able to take it apart to figure it out. i'll pop it off the vault and take photos of it disassembled and take some pictures and measurements of the key i made after work tomorrow in the hopes it'll help.

[I Pik U]

If the key turns the plug and lifts the levers to the correct height the lock will open because the plug throws the bolt.

Not usually. The plugs are free spinning.
Can you not turn the plug round and round with the tip of a small screwdriver or the tip or the blank?

I'd find a blank, make the throat cut (the top cut to clear the outer edge) and blacken (with carbon) the edge of the blank.
Turn the prepared blank in the lock slowly until you feel first contact, then stop turning.
Remove the blank and look for the mark/s made.
This will usually be the deepest cut/s.
File a little on the mark/s, and start again.
Keep doing this until you progressively find the other marks, filing only a little each time.

With some practice and luck (considering it's a Diebold 6 lever)
you may just get her open.

Good luck.

[mkultra23]

If you don't have a candle or want to get covered in soot I have found through experience that a black permanent marker works even better for helping you read the marks. Also heard nail polish is the best medium for this method of impressioning but haven't had the chance to try it yet (my fiance won't let me steal hers)