Preferred tools for manual keycutting / impressioning?

[ridinplugspinnaz]

Key impressioning is something that's interested me since I first started looking into locksport as a hobby. In the meantime, I've collected a couple of old padlocks that I'm consistently able to pick, but I don't have the keys for them. I'd like to experiment with cutting my own keys, based on rough measurements of how high my diamond pick travels over the key pins when the lock has been picked and the plug is inverted (that way the "tops" of the key pins are all at the same reference point, namely the shear line). Obviously I also want to try impressioning these locks as well.

Anyway, now that I'm coming further along into things, I'd really like to give both of these (impressioning and keycutting) a go. I've read Varjeal's guide to impressioning, but insofar as the tools i need, I could stand to hear some more opinions from people that have actually done this before. I've mentioned in previous posts that my living space isn't really conducive to larger power tools like a grinding wheel, etc. I've got a dremel hand tool, and that's about it.

So... what are the kinds of tools I would want to have to manually cut / impression keys? Is this the sort of thing I can do with just a handheld file? What's the difference between round, warding, and pippin files? Can I do this successfully without bigger tools like a grinding wheel? Share your experiences with low-budget keycutting here

(Sorry for the rambling post, I'm completely green to this part of locksport and haven't a clue what questions to ask...)

[globallockytoo]

Vise Grips, keyblanks, a Swiss No 2 cut file or Pippin file is all you should need.

Then practise practise practise.

[globallockytoo]

Round files are generally too coarse. (unless using needle files)
Warding files come in 4", 6" & 8" and are generally used for bit key impressioning.

Pippin files or Swiss No 2 cut are the preferred files to use.

[ToolyMcgee]

Ok, I've just got a small blurb about working with no tools for this. I have done it less than a dozen times, but you DON'T want to try it with a stainless key. Brass or softer is the only way to start. Filing that stainless key into a blade 100 times was a @#!$%. I actually don't know what a pippin file is, but I have good luck with regular needle files, diamond files, and... if you can keep it a secret... I cut 800 and 1200 grit sandpaper into my own dremel discs to polish the edge up to mirror shiny. Be careful as the sharp edge of the disc can scuff grooves in the metal at to sharp an angle. Once you get deep you need to hand sand the edges. Get yourself a good compass to try cutting your own discs. No 2 dollar elementary school compass will do. It will be more trouble than the few bucks you save. Other than that all I have used is slightly less than 2x mag headband.

Hope my input is somehow useful.

-ToolyMcgee

[ridinplugspinnaz]

Wow guys, thanks for the quick and informative replies. I've got a couple more questions, now that I come to think of it. First, what's the best place to actually go and buy some of this hardware, like the files? I've seen the #4 swiss pippin files go for something like $65 online, is that really a reasonable price? The #2 cut is more reasonable on price, but still seems rather expensive. Vise grips and keyblanks I figure are easy enough to find wherever. Is there something I should be protecting the warding of the key with while I'm clamping and reclamping it?

Another quick question about blanks. I know brass is the best to go with, but there are a couple blank profiles I've come across that don't seem to be offered in brass, only nickel silver. Is that going to be comparable to brass in terms of ease of cutting?

Finally, on impressioning vs. keycutting: what are the procedural differences between the two? Can I cut keys correctly with just a file? Obviously I will not have to do things like file to a blade with straight keycutting, but I know very little else about making keys manually. If someone can highlight the differences between these two techniques, that would be great. Thanks!

[ToolyMcgee]

A #4 pippin files has alot of precise machine work to it. It isn't going to be cheap, but you can probably find a better deal than 60 bucks.

Don't mess with TOOLSHOP vicegrips or other house brands. Get yourself 2 nice pairs of different sized lever lock pliers and they will last a lifetime if properly used for about 20 buck retail. Don't use excessive force to clamp the blank on the key warding. Try not to do it at all really, unless it is varialble force and just for filing. Brass plates can be bought for your vice, or you could make your own boot leather covers if your vice is flush, but has teeth.

Nickel silver isn't as good as brass, unless it is nickel/silver plated brass. Ease of cutting isn't the issue, it the marks that impressioning leaves on the softer material that matters.

As for cutting with a file, I always find hand processes to be more accurate and meticulous than power tool processes. Here's the first key I impressioned. Sorry for the pick in the picture.

Do you see why the stainless blank took forever! I file almost all my keys after a machine cuts them anyway. The human element is highly variable, and this is what makes it superiour and more acurate, but much slower. A lock is a mechanism which requires slack to function without failure for decades. I have opened 30 year old laminated steel master locks that have been pryed on several times with severly twisted shackles, and turned face up in the rain, or face down in the mud. They always open. It speaks for the longevity of the lock. Some people criticise the way the cylinder rattles in the lock, but I have opened several mudpie, over charcoaled, rusted closed locks that should have been lockouts, and did so without using any solvents. I think it's why they remain a standard in an industry where they are all but obsolete.

What was I talking about? Impressioning... 000 or 0000 steel wool and even faster is 1200 = dremel disc cutouts. You could scracth a brass blank with your beard stuble and see it with 1.77 mag.

[globallockytoo]

Wow guys, thanks for the quick and informative replies. I've got a couple more questions, now that I come to think of it. First, what's the best place to actually go and buy some of this hardware, like the files? I've seen the #4 swiss pippin files go for something like $65 online, is that really a reasonable price? The #2 cut is more reasonable on price, but still seems rather expensive. Vise grips and keyblanks I figure are easy enough to find wherever. Is there something I should be protecting the warding of the key with while I'm clamping and reclamping it?

Another quick question about blanks. I know brass is the best to go with, but there are a couple blank profiles I've come across that don't seem to be offered in brass, only nickel silver. Is that going to be comparable to brass in terms of ease of cutting?

Finally, on impressioning vs. keycutting: what are the procedural differences between the two? Can I cut keys correctly with just a file? Obviously I will not have to do things like file to a blade with straight keycutting, but I know very little else about making keys manually. If someone can highlight the differences between these two techniques, that would be great. Thanks!

There are various suppliers across the USA who sell the impression files and for a lot less than $65. You need to research this yourself. This is not a spoon fed world...sorry.

When you say warding....you never clamp the vise grips to the profile....just the key head....so no warding is attacked.

Finally....NEVER release an impressioned key to the end user.....always ALWAYS go back to your code machine and cut a correct key to code using your impressioned key as your guide.

In Malaysia, I know locksmiths that work on the street, peddaling their wares and some will duplicate keys by impressioning....but today the cost of a hand crank machine is so inexpensive....it makes your task so much easier.

[blake1803]

There are various suppliers across the USA who sell the impression files and for a lot less than $65. You need to research this yourself. This is not a spoon fed world...sorry.

To be fair, a lot of the "usual suspects" recently hiked the prices on the Grobet #4 Pippin files, specifically. Not just locksmith suppliers, either - jewelers, general supply etc.

[Absinthe]

I for one sell quite a few pippin as well as round impressioning files. I have several european models, and I have recently added the Grobet line to my offerings, because some people like to pay more for things .

The current prices on my website will only be honored until my stock is reduced, and will go up considerably when I reorder.

The pippins come in #2 and #4 cut (the #4 is finer) both are available in 6" and the #2 is also available in 8".

The round ones are available in #2, #4 and I used to be able to get #6 but I don't think so anymore on that one. However, the #2 and #4 are both available in 6" and 8" considerably less than the corresponding pippins. The #2 is also available in 10".

Some people like to use a flat (warding file) to prepare the key blank and I can get them in both #2 and #4 in either 4" or 6" length.

Actually I can get just about any style or size of file in production today. However, small orders of something that I don't normally stock can be a bit pricier (read that closer to SRP) that things I do.

I am aware of the SRP on these things, however, my prices are considerably less for either quantity purchases as well as working locksmiths.

[ridinplugspinnaz]

There are various suppliers across the USA who sell the impression files and for a lot less than $65. You need to research this yourself. This is not a spoon fed world...sorry.

Just to be clear, I didn't mean to suggest that I think LP101 should be helping me comparison shop for the best deal on tools, sorry if I gave that impression (my reply was pretty poorly worded). What I meant to ask was what kinds of shops are likely to sell that type of file.. the impression I get is that this isn't just a standard file that every neighborhood hardware store is likely to carry. Anyway I see that a few more people have replied with some more information, I appreciate the suggestions!