Antique Yale Push key Pin tumbler lock

[Dak]

pictures here
http://www.antique-padlocks.com/picture ... 302_tn.jpg


Of What I think I understand. there are levers at the end of the plug? I see pins and I don't know whay they do. Help pls.

[MacGnG1]

bigger pic: http://www.antique-padlocks.com/9451tag ... e_1302.jpg

[Raymond]

There are no levers in this one. The numbers on the face of the plug are the code. I could not read the numbers so they may be a direct code for the cuts of the key instead of a listed code.

To pick this lock you must pull out on the shackle while picking the pins. Try tying it to a rope to help pulling. You can also use a shim from the front as there is no shoulder on the plug.

The shackle will not turn until it moves out about 1/8 inch.

They are very easy to impression the key using a piece of flet brass for the key.

LOL

[Dak]

i tied a rope around each foot and through the shackle of the lock. I tried at this thing for an hour and that plug won't turn AT ALL any ways.

[Dak]

Well I WD-40'd the lock. I rigged up the same contraption as before and set to picking. I get nowhere fast. When I give up and let go of the tension I hear the clicks of pins falling back. I don't understand that at all because as far as I can tell the plug hasn't turned a mere millimeter.

WTF IS UP WITH THIS TANK OF A LOCK!??!?!?!?!??!

[Raymond]

Relax DAK. You are trying toooooo hard. Remember, this lock is referred to as a "push key" padlock. This lock does not turn to open. The key pushes the plug and shackle out. Only after it is up and out will it swivel. Pulling with the rope is the same as using a turning tool on normal pin tumbler locks.

[Dak]

alright so I can get the plug to mive inward about oh say 2 mm? All the while having a lot of force on the rope. All the pins still move fine but nothing sets.

confusing lock is confusing.

[Raymond]

What is the code on the face of the plug? It may be the direct digits of the key cuts and will give you a clue to picking. Lying flat across the inside , at the top of the lock is a very heavy, flat spring that pushes the shackle closed. Since the plug is connected directly to the shackle you are having to compress the spring to pick the plug straight up.

If you can hold the lock in a vise, put the rope on the shackle, secure the end of the rope straight out, maybe twist the rope to apply a constant force, and you may be able to set all the pins. I think the difficulty in holding the rope out in a very steady manner may prevent easy picking. I do not know for certain but I do not believe those locks had any security pins.

The lock comes apart after opening. The 'crown' at the top, under the shackle, and on the opposite side from the plug, can be unscrewed and removed. It is under a lot of pressure from the flat spring and will fight reassembly. With the crown off, the spring can be slid back and out of the groove in the plug. This allows the shackle and plug to come straight out the top. It can then be rekeyed like any other pin tumbler lock.

Good luck! We are rooting for you!

[raimundo]

Pushkey makes it sound like another antique locks, but this one is a pintumbler plug, however the tension must be on the shackle and no torque is nessesary

Raymond is right, you are binding all those pin tumblers by the force you apply, go light and you will be laughing at how easy it is.

[Dak]

update: I have tried weights of up to 40 lbs. (starting at lbs.) on the shackle with no luck. Looking in the cylinder I can see that the bottom pins are serrated or thats what it seems like. My theory is that the top pins are serrated as well and the plug is catching on the serrations thwarting my picking attemtps. My question is now how do I pick security pins in this kind of lock? in modern pin tumblers you can loosen up on the tension wrench and then pick the serrations/spools, but on this lock lifting the weight does not make the plug shoot back up. It stays put.


so LP i inquire your mechanical genius to help me. please.

[Raymond]

Have you felt in with the back of a diamond pick or equivalent to verify if all the pins are moving freely and can be counted? If one is stuck up, picking will not happen.

I am still willing to bet the numbers stamped on the face of the lock are the actual key cuts. This will give you great insight to the key combination while picking. I do not remember Yale using serrated pins but they may be showing some tool marks.

1. Try holding only the shackle in the vise with the keyway up for easy acess and place a screwdriver between the lock body and the vise top. Wedge the screwdrive gently as you pick.


2. OK DAK, if this one is still kicking your butt, try something different. Shim it from the front. Mount the lock in a vise for easy hands free operation. Put a large diamond pick in the keyway behind the first pin. Insert the shim into the front and pull back on the pick to raise the pin to shear. Advance the pick and shim. Keep the pick in deeper than the shim. Due to long pins I would not expect the pick to come out.

[Dak]

could you please explain the shimming process you are talking about?

[Raymond]

Hello DAK,

"Shimming" is a common method for quickly taking apart stubborn lock cylinders when they do not pick easily or quickly. As a locksmith I do not always have the luxory of getting all the time I want to pick locks apart.

A shim is a small strip of tough steel that is about .002" (two thousandths of an inch). We regularly purchase them or make them. When I first had the epiphany of the idea I pounded a streetsweeper brush flat with a ball pein hammer and ground it on a concrete step until thin and smooth enough. (1962) One common source is to take apart the theft preventive electronic sensor on most prepackaged items bought at stores. This yields a strip that is even thinner.

The shim is usually used from the back of a cylinder. It is inserted into the cylinder exactly at the shear line of the rearmost pin. With very little pressure against the pin, raise the pin with a pick or keyblank until the shim slides through the shear between the top and bottom pin to stop on the next pin. Repeat this process until all pins have been "shimmed" and the plug turns. One then removes the shim and pushes out the plug with a plug follower. Ta da - rekey. The lock may require liquid lubrication before starting.

A very few locks have no shoulder on the plug in the front. These can be shimmed from the front using the same process. I have seen this on old locks made by Reese (military), Hurd, very old Wilson-Bohannon, and most pin-tumbler push key padlocks like the Yale or Corbin.

I hope I have explained the process adequately. If not ask some more. LOL

[Dak]

very nice I will try that thank you.

[5thcorps]

who would've thought those annoying sticky security tags could be useful after the fact. Thanks for the tip