Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.
by IronSmith » 4 Mar 2009 23:52
Okay, after my brain fart and asking about the 2500, lets see if I can ask my question correctly. I am developing a kit for a .gov client to work with the American Lock Co. 5200. The client see's a lot of these in their environment, and has two needs - Opening these locks for security reasons, and using the 5200 thats very available to them already as a teaching model for employees who need to work on this skillset. What they want is a kit (I'll be developing it, but probably not sourcing it for them beyond the first couple) of ideal tools specifically for this lock. Many of them will already be in their inventory, but identifying what to list as the contents for "Entry Kit, American Lock 5200, 1ea". This is designed to be in addition to a standard pick set - However, if any picks in particular work well for these, I'd like to hear your experiences. I've got some 5200s on my desk and am playing with them to form my own ideas, but, as the feller said, living systems are open systems and all that. “ If we don't communicate with the outside world - to gain information for knowledge and understanding as well as matter and energy for sustenance - we die out to become a nondiscerning and uninteresting part of that world.â€What I know: Unlike some of the other American models, I am not aware of any bypass tool for the 5200 series. It seems people have been having a lot of luck with rake's, particularly Bogota style rakes. Bump keys are easily available (and can always be made as well) - However, at least the more recent editions of the 5200 have American's "bumpstop" tech, for what that may or may not be worth. What I want to know: Anything else in particular that may prove valuable as I set about learning these locks and developing a toolset for them. I'm sorry for the somewhat unconventional post, I understand why a specific lock model post would raise eyebrows and I'll try to avoid doing this, hopefully the more I get back into this game the more I can share what I know, and learn what I don't, about more generalized topics. TIA 
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by raimundo » 5 Mar 2009 8:30
I don't have one of these locks you speak of. but Ive picked a few american locks, and the keyways are small, so thin shaft small picks will work best.
You report that this lock has a wide bottom to the plug, so getting the right fit of tensor is important. It should grip the plug and as much as possible it should not bind on the bottom of the keyway into the cylinder wall. So a special tensor is needed.
When inserting a well sanded picktip into an american lock you want to go to the back of the lock under all the pins without then when under the pin I want to set, I can lift the pin by twisting the picktip back to vertical while fealing for a set. I usually work these locks from back to front, but as usual, there is always an exception to the rule.
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by Squelchtone » 5 Mar 2009 9:43
Ok, here's my tip. Overlift all of the pins at once with the back of a hook pick, hold firm tension, remove the pick, flip it back so the hook faces the pins, now use it to go under each pin while slowly letting off the tension and work each stack until they are all properly set. This method has helped me a lot to overcome the serrated pins.
Squelchtone
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by lock2006 » 7 Mar 2009 17:21
I got a couples of this American lock 5200 series and 5100 and 1105 series rakes work really good on all this locks,also picking in the reverse side works too,the method that (squelchtone) helped me a lot to overcome the serrated pins.
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by cheesehead » 7 Mar 2009 21:11
i use a small tension wrench designed to fit snugly into the top of the keyway- I find it makes it much easier to pick my american locks.
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by apb » 7 Mar 2009 23:47
cheesehead wrote:i use a small tension wrench designed to fit snugly into the top of the keyway- I find it makes it much easier to pick my american locks.
I do the same thing with a bobby pin as the tension wrench and it works very well. The other advantage to this is that you can pick the 5200 counter clockwise and sometimes it will pick/rake surprisingly easy in the other direction. For the most part, anyone interested in learning to be serious about cracking 5200's using some sort of method will have to know how to pick security pins and deal with a false set. I don't have any knowledge of a bypass tool for this lock.
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by tacedeous » 8 Mar 2009 2:46
I know peterson makes a wafer breaker for it, so I would assume there is a bypass tool for it, where teetering on advanced stuff here so ill slow down and also say... I STILL CANT PICK THIS DAM* THING!!! 
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by Squelchtone » 8 Mar 2009 3:08
tacedeous wrote:I know peterson makes a wafer breaker for it, so I would assume there is a bypass tool for it, where teetering on advanced stuff here so ill slow down and also say... I STILL CANT PICK THIS DAM* THING!!! 
a wafer breaker for the 5200? I think you're thinking of the 700 series TSR body storefront grate padlock. different animal than the lock we're talking about. Squelchtone
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by tacedeous » 8 Mar 2009 16:04
squelchtone wrote:tacedeous wrote:I know peterson makes a wafer breaker for it, so I would assume there is a bypass tool for it, where teetering on advanced stuff here so ill slow down and also say... I STILL CANT PICK THIS DAM* THING!!! 
a wafer breaker for the 5200? I think you're thinking of the 700 series TSR body storefront grate padlock. different animal than the lock we're talking about. Squelchtone
yupp your right squelch, so no bypass techniques for the 5200? this thing just keeps getting better... it my goto padlock for locking stuff up... do they have it in shrouded?
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by raimundo » 10 Mar 2009 8:01
there was a bypass tool that reached through the plug and rotated the part that allows the balls to pull in. This was a very stiff wire. American lock co fixed that with a thin stainless disc at the end of the plug, so petersen made a breaker that punches through this barrier, and lets the stiff wire bypass happen again.
Look at petersen tools for the 'wafer breaker'
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by le.nutzman » 10 Mar 2009 12:42
Guess it's time for me to chime in since all I pick are American 5200 series Padlocks.
First and foremost, the Amercian 5200 is a 5 Pin, double ball bearing anti-shim lock. Unlike it's relative the American 5260 which is exactly identical except the 5260 CAN use a 6 pin core and it has a larger shackle, though I've yet to see one to date, most are still 5 pin.
I pick these locks roughly in about 30 seconds or less. Not sure what ya'll are doing, but I have little to no problems with these locks. Preferred pick assault is either Petersen Slender Gem or the Reach depending on the bitting.
I acquired 14 cut 5200 locks sunday morning from work (they didn't want me to take the time to open them and re-key them all, so they figured cutting them and replacing them with new ones was cheaper) and have opened them all.
What I can tell you about these locks is this:
Tension makes a huge difference on these locks. If I use light tension, just barely more than finger weight on the tension wrench, using a slender gem, inserting it and randomly lifting each pin stack gently regardless of the security pins, I will most likely open the lock in a matter of seconds. If I use medium tension and bounce the tension gently as I lift each pin stack, I can feel and hear each click of the serrated pins. Using this method takes me about 1:30-2:00 minutes to open the lock. I personally have YET to open one of these locks with a Bogata or any type of Rake (sorry Rai, one lock that for me, seems to not like your famous Bogata). I use medium tension because I have found that due to the ball bearings, once the last pin is set, it sometimes takes a bit to get the intial movement of the core started, after that, it generally falls right away.
My suggestion to get around the "stiffness" of turning the core once picked is to have the shackle remain depressed while picking this type of lock, you will find that it will pick faster without the shackle tension.
These are Key Retaining style locks, however, I have successfully picked these locks opened backwards. I haven't determined whether it was any easier or not as I don't view it in that aspect.
Top 3 best picks to use against this lock in my opinion:
1. Peterson Slender Gem, no keyway issues, pointed raised tip allows for lifting qualities sufficient to pick even extreme MAC bittings.
2. Peterson Slender Reach, no keyway issues, might pose a problem when encountering extreme MAC bitting, but still very reliable.
3. Slimline Deforester Pick/Slimline Short Hook, no keyway issues, the flatness of the hook tip allows for confident location of keypin face, deforester pick body angle allows for minimal pin lifting movement
Tension wrench used: Peterson Prybar Lite, Modified Medium Twist Flex and Home Brew Tension Wrench made from Largest Size Bobby Pin, all upper keyway tensioned.

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by tacedeous » 10 Mar 2009 17:23
upper keyway tension eh...
/grabs 5200...
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by raimundo » 12 Mar 2009 11:04
filing a tensor for the upper keyway, heres a good method, get a bicycle spoke, one end has a 90 degree bend and a nailhead.
This part of the spoke can be filed flat on both sides, and then filed to fit the american keyway, I do not recommend trying to make this into a fits all universal tensor, but a dedicated fitted tensor for this brand of lock. Then you can fit it for length, and if you have a big hammer and an old broken file, put the tip of the tensor between two broken pieces of file, and strike hard on the pile, this will coin the lines of the file into the tensor head giveing it some grip on the keyway walls. I reccommend the lines of the file be parallel to the length of the keyway, but any kind of grip is probably going to work.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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by tacedeous » 12 Mar 2009 13:29
sweet im gonna head by the local bike shop today.. im sure they have a spoke for donation... thanks rai!
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