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modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby FarmerFreak » 13 May 2009 10:07

I made this lock a while ago,...I was bored and being creative. My goal was to make the lock easy to pick, but not easy to pick it open :twisted:

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This is the lock and the key that works it.

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Nothing too unusual at this point. If you have friends that like to pick locks. You should make one just to play with their head.

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It isn't difficult to pick this lock, but the shackle doesn't open when picked normally.

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Taking the lock apart. Nothing too weird unless you noticed the spring in the back of the driver.

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Normally the lock wouldn't need a spring here. But my modded cylinder needs it to work reliably.

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Now you can see how it all works. The cylinder is still a six pin cylinder, but it has been cut in half.

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I had to use two cylinders to make one. But only because I can't make a cut between two chambers and still have them both working.

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It is important that the lock has a cap like this one to hold the front end of the cylinder in the lock. If you did this with most locks the front half of the cylinder would come out and give you a small headache every time you used the key.

Also note. The ways I can see to open this lock are as fallows: Use correct key, Impression a key, Key bump the lock, use a really long tension wrench, or risk breaking a pick using it to tension the rear plug and pick the last two pins.

Yeah it doesn't sound very secure when I list all those options for how to open it. But it's fun to play games with other lock pickers. Hand them the key and they can open it, picking it they can't. It's fun to watch. :D
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Re: modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby sfi72 » 13 May 2009 13:19

I would pick the first half, and pull the front of the cut plug out, and then pick the back part.
<jkthecjer> this kwikset did not yield so easily
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Re: modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby Squelchtone » 13 May 2009 13:51

sfi72 wrote:I would pick the first half, and pull the front of the cut plug out, and then pick the back part.


fail. =)

You can't pull it out like a normal rim or mortise because the cylinder is bottom loaded hence the metal plate which has a retaining screw that can only be released from inside the shackle hole.

I think this is a pretty neat idea actually... you could also have lateral holes in the cylinders so that when the front one is picked and rotated it shoots a spring loaded pin (imagine the pin on the back of a schlage clinder which holds the cap on the back from rotating off) into a hole on the 'face' of the cylinder behind it, thus locking up the lock in that awkward position.

man I love trap pins,
Squelchtone
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Re: modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby FarmerFreak » 13 May 2009 14:19

The idea of locking the cylinders together after first half turns would be a scary idea. I really would like to be able to open the lock after having someone try to open it. And secondly, it may make it possible to pick the back end of the cylinder if they were to lock up again...pending on the depths of cuts.
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Re: modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby sfi72 » 13 May 2009 14:40

squelchtone wrote:
sfi72 wrote:I would pick the first half, and pull the front of the cut plug out, and then pick the back part.


fail. =)

You can't pull it out like a normal rim or mortise because the cylinder is bottom loaded hence the metal plate which has a retaining screw that can only be released from inside the shackle hole.

I think this is a pretty neat idea actually... you could also have lateral holes in the cylinders so that when the front one is picked and rotated it shoots a spring loaded pin (imagine the pin on the back of a schlage clinder which holds the cap on the back from rotating off) into a hole on the 'face' of the cylinder behind it, thus locking up the lock in that awkward position.

man I love trap pins,
Squelchtone


Right, wasn't thinking about that plate...
<jkthecjer> this kwikset did not yield so easily
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Re: modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby SnowyBoy » 13 May 2009 14:40

Is it just me thinking this, or could you not just pick the back two pins and rotate to unlock?
What a load of old BiLocks!!!!

I'm probably 0 for 400 in looking for safes behind wall paintings
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Re: modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby nothumbs » 13 May 2009 17:01

Might be difficult to rotate just the back half while the front half is still held in position by its pins. Also not clear how you tension the back half without first picking the front half, rotating it just enough to pass its shear line, then sticking a very long tension wrench down to the second half to then pick it and rotate it, which by the way is, I think, the way to pick such a setup.

Whew, lots of commas there.
It's a good day when I learn something new.
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Re: modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby sfi72 » 13 May 2009 17:12

nothumbs wrote:Might be difficult to rotate just the back half while the front half is still held in position by its pins. Also not clear how you tension the back half without first picking the front half, rotating it just enough to pass its shear line, then sticking a very long tension wrench down to the second half to then pick it and rotate it, which by the way is, I think, the way to pick such a setup.

Whew, lots of commas there.

Tensioning only the back half wouldn't be to hard, all you need is a piece of wire bent in a small L shape. Granted, the wire needs to be fairly stiff but there are materials that can be that small, and strong enough to rotate the cylinder.
<jkthecjer> this kwikset did not yield so easily
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Re: modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby ToolyMcgee » 13 May 2009 17:17

Simple enough, but it would sure aggrivate the crap outta me. :mrgreen: This could make a keyway that requires top tension to have to have a special bottom tensioner to even give a hope of picking it. This lock would only be a confusing annoyance, but the potential for something seriously frustrating is there. Impressioning, like you said, is another story. Very cool.

-Tooly
*blank*
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Re: modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby SnowyBoy » 13 May 2009 18:24

If you want to make this really interesting, work out a way to make the back cylinder turn clockwise with the front turning anticlockwise :p
What a load of old BiLocks!!!!

I'm probably 0 for 400 in looking for safes behind wall paintings
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Re: modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby femurat » 14 May 2009 3:23

SnowyBoy wrote:If you want to make this really interesting, work out a way to make the back cylinder turn clockwise with the front turning anticlockwise :p


This would make the original key impossible to use!

Nice idea tough :)
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Re: modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby SnowyBoy » 14 May 2009 6:02

femurat wrote:
SnowyBoy wrote:If you want to make this really interesting, work out a way to make the back cylinder turn clockwise with the front turning anticlockwise :p


This would make the original key impossible to use!

Nice idea tough :)


I know :lol:

I was having one of my crazy hair brained ideas again about a key which has intricate gear mechanisms so when you turn the front CW the back goes CW.

On a similar note, my little disc magets turned up today so I'm going to try them in place of springs :D
What a load of old BiLocks!!!!

I'm probably 0 for 400 in looking for safes behind wall paintings
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Re: modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby cryptocat » 14 May 2009 9:28

I was thinking about a small gear train to reverse direction too, with a pin that acts like a clutch pedal to disengage the gears when a key is inserted.

If you wanted to be really evil about this, split the plug into 4+1. Once the first 4 let go and the plug rotates, no one's gonna look for that last pin.

I like the idea making something that looks like an easy lock, just to mess with people's heads :)
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Re: modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby datagram » 14 May 2009 10:03

Why not just go whole hog and make it a pin-tumbler disc detainer hybrid?

dg
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Re: modified padlock for a little extra pick resistance.

Postby SnowyBoy » 14 May 2009 11:41

datagram wrote:Why not just go whole hog and make it a pin-tumbler disc detainer hybrid?

dg


Wouldn't be much point really though..... the disc detainer system has been proven to be secure enough and on the flip side the pin tumbler to be one of the least secure designs (why people still use them I'll never know).
What a load of old BiLocks!!!!

I'm probably 0 for 400 in looking for safes behind wall paintings
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