different pick and tension wrench materials??

[thelockpickkid]

I have been wanting to make a few picks out of those cheappy thin bladed knives, there are like slicers or something or other, you can get them for about a buck apiece or so, I think I will start practicing on making picks with those and then move up to more expensive knives. Anyways,,,, think I will go bump my warded padlock with my new bumpkeys!!!

[ToolyMcgee]

I have been wanting to make a few picks out of those cheappy thin bladed knives

The important word is quality, not knife. Dollar store knife is worse than dime a dozen hacksaw blade. The cheapest hacksaw blade is still functional, Chinese dollar store slicer blade might not even work out of the package, so I'm not going out on a limb to say it's not worth the effort. The faberware knives in kmart, junk. The chicago cutlery knives at kohl's, junk. For the same reason the kwikset locks on the shelf at home depot are kwikset in name only. Products marketed to the masses under brand names and of inferiour material quality so they can be marked up for huge profit. I can buy several hundred dollars worth of quality knives for around 1 dollar second hand. To grind a knife into a lock jimmy when you paid 45 dollars for it would be insane. People put working televisions, clocks, bikes, guitars, and all manner of furniture on the curb for the garbage man. This is no different. You only have to look for it.

-Tooly

[thelockpickkid]

tooly, you are right, I just have attempted to make picks more than a dozen times now and I always fail to come up with anything like what all you guys make, I just have a heck of a time! I am ready to give up and just stick to my HPC picks!

[ToolyMcgee]

I was trying to be encourageing Hmmm... I'll try again.

In those dozen attempts you have had success. Right? So if you are capable of making a good short hook with other steel, if you had HPC spring steel you could make an HPC short hook. I just don't want you to buy something cheap and make a pick you have no use for. I've done enough of it, so you shouldn't have to. Benefit from my wasted efforts. Solingen Germany, Sheffield England, Simmons hollow ground swedish steel. You can't go wrong with those unless it's Sheffield made in China. Older Ginsu, but new Ginsu 2000 is made in china. High carbon stainless Geneva, Robinson... really the list is massive and I'm still experimenting my way through it. Hopefully for a long time. These may not be the brands you are running into in your neck of the woods, but I think they are fairly widespread in the US for the most part. There are alot of great old knives from regional american turn of the century companies as well. How to tell beyond a brand name... often immitated handle features can be misleading, or helpful, but a simple flex test can be very revealing. If it takes a 15 degree bend as a knife, but doesn't snap back to true, then it won't withstand that same force as a lock pick. No good. Don't get too carried away bending them though. Whatever you choose, you can't go wrong with goodwill prices. That's the main thing. At a quarter a blade you can afford to pick out mostly losers and still be ahead of the curve. Just try to get as close to the thickness you want as possible from whatever second hand shop has flatware/cutlery. I take in the caliper and measure them. Thinning a .042 knife to a .027 pick is possible, but trust me, it's alot more work than needs to be done. Stainless is hard to work, and some of this stuff remarkably so. No actual butter knives though. The ones that are all stainless. I have little experience with working them. Just too heavy to carry.

I just got my first HPC short hook last week. I like it. I'm considering buying some blanks to customize. Makes sense. Is the spring steel as good as the better knife steels I've found... no, but that's somewhat a matter of opinion. It's in a higher league than almost all of these other homebrew materials. If you only used HPC for the rest of your days I couldn't blame you. But the steel is around, and you have made other picks, so I think to stop before you make 1 short hook that is as good as an HPC would be a shame, because it is totally attainable.

-Tooly

[Brian Sandman]

Greetings thelockpickkid:

'Thelockpickkid' making a statement with profanity reveals an important insight about your intellectual capacity and social skills.

The bump technique can be used with individual levers.
Have you heard of Jerry Finch?
Have you taken any of his courses?


[quote] Anyways,,,, think I will go bump my warded padlock with my new bumpkeys!!
*******Nothong was mentioned about padlocks?

Below is the original quote from the post the lockpickkid refers to.
[quote adrenalynn] Yeah - you don't bump a warded lock...
*******Yes you can for specific levers as part of the overall picking strategy...

Sandman................................
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[Brian Sandman]

Greetings:

How about using brass wire from hobby shops and making a 'press fit'
Turning Tool/torsion wrench ?
If the tool is rigid it send back more information about the pin stacks.

Sandman...........................
*****************************

[TigerDragon]

Greetings thelockpickkid:

'Thelockpickkid' making a statement with profanity reveals an important insight about your intellectual capacity and social skills.

The bump technique can be used with individual levers.
Have you heard of Jerry Finch?
Have you taken any of his courses?

Anyways,,,, think I will go bump my warded padlock with my new bumpkeys!!
*******Nothong was mentioned about padlocks?

Below is the original quote from the post the lockpickkid refers to.
[quote adrenalynn] Yeah - you don't bump a warded lock...
*******Yes you can for specific levers as part of the overall picking strategy...

Sandman................................
********************************

These arguments are all based on miscommunication.

Translations:
When most people on this site talk about 'bumping' a lock, they are talking about an effect that can ONLY work on pin tumbler locks. Taking the key blank, cutting it to the deepest cut for all pin positions, shaving a little off the tip and shoulder, and using that with a bump hammer to open the lock in a tap or three.

When we use the term 'warded lock' we mean a lock that only has warding inside the casing to prevent the key from turning and either throwing the bolt directly, or squeezing a spring to allow the shackle of the padlock to pop. There are no levers or pins inside a 'warded lock.'

When Sandman says 'warded lever lock' he means 'lever lock.' When he says 'can be bumped' he means something other than what we call 'bumping' because it involves one lever at a time, and true 'bumping' doesn't work on lever locks.

Sandman also used 'turning tool' instead of 'tension wrench.' He probably knows what he's talking about for at least most of the things he has said (except I question the dating of medeco et al in a previous post he has made) but he doesn't use the same phrases to mean the same things.

Just saying...

[ToolyMcgee]

Greetings:

How about using brass wire from hobby shops and making a 'press fit'
Turning Tool/torsion wrench ?
If the tool is rigid it send back more information about the pin stacks.

Sandman...........................
*****************************

I've ground a wedge tip in steel flat tensioners to make a very tight press fit, but the problem was it quickly forced enough space it wasn't secure anymore. Seems like brass on brass would help remedy that and give a tight fit much longer. Thank you.

My favorite tensioners are ones with the least play in a keyway, and I hadn't really thought about it in terms of feedback until you said this, even though I have already made ones to fit tightly for easier tension control, I hadn't considered I've been benefiting from both. Perspective gained.

-Tooly

[Brian Sandman]

Greetings Tooly:
[quoteToolyMcgee]I've ground a wedge tip in steel flat tensioners to make a very tight press fit, but the problem was it quickly forced enough space it wasn't secure anymore. Seems like brass on brass would help remedy that and give a tight fit much longer. Thank you.
******You are welcome. That is a technique taught way back in the 1960's. Then I experimented with different lengths of tool brass. The rigid feeling is good for picking up the tension of the pinstacks.
There are 2 different types of brass: Alpha and Beta. One is used for brass cartridge cases for flexibility and the other has a bit more zinc compound for tempering. Although when I pour bronze for sculptures
and water quench it, the bronze comes out tempered too. Some art foundries may have some 'venting tubes' which are cut off the casting and re-melted after. It is a tempered hardness great for for slow filing.
Careful of the edges.

[quoteToolyMcgee] My favorite tensioners are ones with the least play in a keyway...
*******Yes same here. I have made them from industrial plastic tubes also. Only good for one time usage though.

Sandman.......................................
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[ToolyMcgee]

There are 2 different types of brass: Alpha and Beta. One is used for brass cartridge cases for flexibility and the other has a bit more zinc compound for tempering. Although when I pour bronze for sculptures
and water quench it, the bronze comes out tempered too. Some art foundries may have some 'venting tubes' which are cut off the casting and re-melted after. It is a tempered hardness great for for slow filing.
Careful of the edges.

Sandman.......................................
****************************************

Art foundries... I'll have to check that out. I've a friend in art school who is into bronze sculpture. Wonder if I can get my hands on some of the flash rod from the venting tubes... I was just using the same brass rod used for pinning knife handles since it's what I have lying around. Seems to be working very well. A couple lengths of it will be a valuable addition to my small kit. Thanks again.

-Tooly

[Brian Sandman]

-Tooly, can you tell me where to obtain the brass for pinning knife handles? I would like touse as many sources of raw staock as possible.
You are welcome.
Exchange of knowledge and experience is always good.

Sandman..........................51st State
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[thelockpickkid]

Brian, I am sorry I insulted your inteligence, as that was wrong of me, you do have lots of useful information and it is appreciated. I found your info about warded lock bump keys to be absurd but it was because I have not had the experience with the warded lever locks. After doing some research I found that what you say is correct. No more childish comments from me I promise!

[ToolyMcgee]

-Tooly, can you tell me where to obtain the brass for pinning knife handles? I would like touse as many sources of raw staock as possible.
You are welcome.
Exchange of knowledge and experience is always good.

Sandman..........................51st State
********************************

Well, I bought all mine from pops knives at a knife show last september. He has an online shop, but I don't see the brass pins being stocked... knifekits.com has some http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=60_107_112, they overcharge for alot of materials, but that doesn't look too terrible. If you are looking to buy a bunch, probably shop around to find a better price. Google knife making, knife kits, knife supplies... you get the idea.

-Tooly

[Brian Sandman]

Hi Thelockpickkid :
Please accept my apology for the late responce.
I have been Volunteering and training new recruits besides
attending Nightschool.
Thanks for your message, it takes alot to do an about face.
This forum is a good place for learning and sharing.
I offer you a cyber handshake across the miles.

While taking Lockpick Seminars I found that current techniques are somewhat derived from the old methods used on levers.
While going to demolition/restoration sites I would gather as many lightswitch plates as I could lay my hands on.
The thick old brass plates and new stainlees ones are a good source for
pick stock. Placing the plates on a piece of thin hardwood helps to control the saw blade for cutting. Put your thumb on the part already cut to slow down the sawing and prevent the vibration.

Looking forward to the future interactions.

Sandman .....................................
***********************************

[thelockpickkid]

I never thought of using that as pick stock, I know where to find tons of that stuff, that is a great idea! That should be already of the correct thickness if I remember.