One of those scam locksmiths wants me to sub contract

[corey2444]

Got a call from a guy with a heavy accent that asked if I wanted to sub a job for him. I asked him where and how much? He was a smooth talker and would not tell me a price, but that I needed to tell the 'nice" lady my fee when I got there. When I explained to him I do not like doing business where the price for a job was in question prior to driving to the job, he pretended like he didn't understand what I was getting at. Instead he said, "I trust your judgment on setting a price". When I asked him what I should charge he suggested the more the better.

Basically these guys put ads for a locksmith for $19 $25 or $29. A person in need of a locksmith thinks they are getting work for this price. This company hires a sub contractor and sends them to a job. At first they nudge you along making you think everything is legit. I'm predicting I would have got there and set a price I felt was fair, and he would have coached me from there to jack up the price for future jobs. What a real shitty deal for a locksmiths to be put on the spot. Who the heck can look someone in the eye and explain you aren't there to collect $25, but a lot more? What happens when you get a customer that won't tolerate being manipulated and scammed? What would you do, call the cops? No thanks, I'd rather find my own work.

Another thing.. When I was on the phone with him his phone literally rang every 30 seconds. I'm not F'ing kidding! Here I am getting 1-3 jobs a day, sometimes no jobs and these guys have the market locked with their scam. Then they have the nerve to ask for my help? NO THANKS!

[corey2444]

"poopey in the worst way"

Hah, I did not type this. Nice editing!

[globallockytoo]

I have some around of 'em round the corner from me. They are quite nice guys actually but they spend $55K a year on advertising, it's no wonder they get so many calls. I was at his condo today (the local principal) and he was quoting $150+ to do a simple car opening......worse part is the customers are all agreeing to it.

His 2 sidekicks are going on vacation next week and he has offered me 8-10 jobs a day and I can set my own prices.

I get 3-5 jobs a day now, on my own and I spend about $2500 a year on advertising. I am not that keen to get too much work. Just enough to keep me busy and keep getting referrals and continue my slow growth to profitability.

I kinda feel sorry for them, that they are being shunned by the local suppliers. They call me to pick my brains for advice on this or that job. I get along okay with them and occasionally enjoy an ale down the local with them.

I am not sure whether I will accept his offer, but I did say he is welcome to pass my number along to the client if he wants, then they call me and get a fair price instead of exhorbitant ones.

Arguably, what they are doing (if they are not using bait and switch) is ultimately bringing up the value of the locksmith profession. Why does it cost $150+ to get a professional InSinkerator repair man to come out, spend 5 minutes to fix a faulty switch? Because fools will pay that.

[Evan]

"poopey in the worst way"

That would be the auto-magical word filter referenced in Rule #13 at work...

~~ Evan

[Evan]

I have some around of 'em round the corner from me. They are quite nice guys actually but they spend $55K a year on advertising, it's no wonder they get so many calls. I was at his condo today (the local principal) and he was quoting $150+ to do a simple car opening......worse part is the customers are all agreeing to it.

His 2 sidekicks are going on vacation next week and he has offered me 8-10 jobs a day and I can set my own prices.

I get 3-5 jobs a day now, on my own and I spend about $2500 a year on advertising. I am not that keen to get too much work. Just enough to keep me busy and keep getting referrals and continue my slow growth to profitability.

I kinda feel sorry for them, that they are being shunned by the local suppliers. They call me to pick my brains for advice on this or that job. I get along okay with them and occasionally enjoy an ale down the local with them.

I am not sure whether I will accept his offer, but I did say he is welcome to pass my number along to the client if he wants, then they call me and get a fair price instead of exhorbitant ones.

Arguably, what they are doing (if they are not using bait and switch) is ultimately bringing up the value of the locksmith profession. Why does it cost $150+ to get a professional InSinkerator repair man to come out, spend 5 minutes to fix a faulty switch? Because fools will pay that.

LOL... Yeah you hear about those kind of operators from time to time, the ones where they will destroy locks to get someone locked out back in for like $200 and then want EVEN MORE $$$ to install a new lock afterwards...

A lot of states that didn't previously have licensing requirements have implemented them in the past 10 years to combat these types of fraudulent operators who are organized like a pyramid scheme with one local "principal" receiving the lions share of the monies collected...

~~ Evan

[thelockoutguys]

globallockytoo ... i dont see how you can HANG with them when they are killing our industry and have put a lot of legit businesses out of business. If they werent doing the fake listings and bad business practices you probably would be getting more jobs. If i were you i wouldnt have posted that you were sleeping with the enemy. Joke. But even helping them out on the phone...come on.

[corey2444]

Their whole business model is based on deception from the time they place the ad, to the sub they send out, to the money they send out of the country. In order for legit locksmiths to compete, they need to become them, and that's the irony of the whole thing. Some locksmiths become so desperate to pay the bills they sacrifice their morals, not even realizing they wouldn't be in that situation if it weren't for the cheats that throw them a lifeline. Luckily I have a couple of bigger locksmiths throwing me some work, but at least I know what I am making before I drive there.

[globallockytoo]

globallockytoo ... i dont see how you can HANG with them when they are killing our industry and have put a lot of legit businesses out of business. If they werent doing the fake listings and bad business practices you probably would be getting more jobs. If i were you i wouldnt have posted that you were sleeping with the enemy. Joke. But even helping them out on the phone...come on.

I think the mentallity that they are "killing" our industry shows a blinkered opinion.

Whereas I agree that many of their practises are unethical, there really isnt anything illegal about it.

Licensing has been knocked down repeatedly by the states of New York and Florida, two of the states that are known as the "home" of the scammers.
Licensing serves to further tax legitimate locksmiths to ply their trade. It causes consumer prices to rise significantly and rarely does a customer ask if you are licensed. The customer wants the job done and usually will accept the first person they call.

These guys are spending the motherload on advertising and in order to pay for it, they are required to charge hefty fees.

As to the bait and switch (which is the sin that everyone is up in arms about), that is plain bad....and wrong in my opinion.

I did one job today for them where he had quoted the customer $39 service call and $50 and up for labor. The customer knew he was going to pay at least that much. I did the job for $110, in and out 3 minutes. No complaint from the client, they were just happy to get in quickly.

If other locksmiths were to charge significantly higher prices, then the issues would fade. If the client is quoted a price and agrees to it, what is the problem. The onus of responsibility is on the client to accept or deny the estimate.

My thinking has changed about them. I think if they dont use bait and switch tactics, then their system is viable and works fine.

In these inclement economic times, sometimes one must find a way to increase their revenue to make up for the lean times.

Above all, locksmiths can complain till the cows come home about them, but if the customer agrees to the fee, where is the argument?

We are all in business to make money, they have just shown that the locksmith industry in the USA, obviously undervalues itself.

How much is your time, training and skill worth to you? $50 or $100? The choice is yours, what to quote, but the choice is the customers as to what they will accept.

I have learned a huge lesson from this. I learned that I am significantly undervaluing my services by not charging more.

[globallockytoo]

Scammer busted in UK....

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... stomers.do

[corey2444]

I did a job the other night for a lockout. 2 girls in their early 20's called 411 and asked the operator for a locksmith. On the phone they said $29, but when the guy showed up in a car he told them $250 to drill and replace the lock.

Tell me this is legal? They may not get arrested, but any sane civil judge would throw the book at them every time.

[Squelchtone]

I did a job the other night for a lockout. 2 girls in their early 20's called 411 and asked the operator for a locksmith. On the phone they said $29, but when the guy showed up in a car he told them $250 to drill and replace the lock.

Tell me this is legal? They may not get arrested, but any sane civil judge would throw the book at them every time.

In the US all of those scammers get very low alphabet listings like A1 Locksmith or AAAAA Locksmiths; maybe the phone company 411 operators should be made aware of this and stop handing out the 1st number they see. Start in the middle of the alphabet, or only hand out the numbers for brick and mortal locksmith shops. (not taking a stab at mobile lockout specialists, I'm sure there are legit ones who are not from Israel and do not show up in their personal car asking for $250)

May I ask what your rate was for the 2 girls, and what kind of lock you had to pick/bypass? 29 UK is about $45 US so that sounds like a good start.

Thanks,
Squelchtone

[corey2444]

May I ask what your rate was for the 2 girls, and what kind of lock you had to pick/bypass? 29 UK is about $45 US so that sounds like a good start.

I was sub-contracted by one of the biggest lock shops in town for $85. I get 50%. It was actually so easy it was funny. I approached the door and (omg) there was a key in it. I turned the key and the door opened, lol. Basically what happened was they had a pretty looking pink key cut at Wal-Mart that was cut too shallow. It would turn but with some force. Only difference between me and the the girls trying to open the lock was they kept trying to turn it to the locked position, and I, well, opened the door. Code cut another key and charged them $15 extra, and left with $100 plus a $5 tip.

[thelockoutguys]

globallockytoo. I wont reply to your last reponse. I see there is not much difference in thinking between you and the scammers. If the tables were turned and your grandmother got charged $250 to open a door that your would charge $75. Then maybe you would think different. Then again maybe you would charge your grandmother the $250. Hard to say. Either way i sleep fine at night and my business and house and toys are paid for so i dont need to rip of vunerable people even thought they sign a form and pay the money in their time of despear.

[globallockytoo]

globallockytoo. I wont reply to your last reponse. I see there is not much difference in thinking between you and the scammers.

I dispute that remark. I am vastly different in my thinking to their modus operandi.

If the tables were turned and your grandmother got charged $250 to open a door that your would charge $75. Then maybe you would think different. Then again maybe you would charge your grandmother the $250. Hard to say. Either way i sleep fine at night and my business and house and toys are paid for so i dont need to rip of vunerable people even thought they sign a form and pay the money in their time of despear.

My dear old grandmother (May she rest in peace) I would never have charged her, perhaps you would charge yours but I would definitely charge you grandmother my previously telephone estimated price. I do not bait and switch nor ever would. It is plain wrong, plain unethical and immoral.

[WolfSpring]

Those scams are still running rampant everywhere. I did a search on yahoo of locksmiths in my area code and the first 20 were all the same company different name, looked at there reviews and clicked on a name that had over 2,000 reviews to there name and looked at there review history, they had rated 25 of these shops in one day in the same area with the same sob story how they came out and opened there car in the rain and were polite and fast, yet you look up there physical address' and it's usually an empty lot or non-existent address, there are 3 locksmiths in my area according to maps,google.com and two of them are actually companies, schlage and a hardware type place the other is "mike's locksmith shop" and I looked him up on yahoo and he didn't have a site or any advertising at all. It scares me with these scammers, hopefully in the next few years they will find better ways to fix this, the start is education IMO of the customers to put the scammers out of buisness. There have been news stories all over the place about there tactics and how a lot of there lock out guys are just people with a wedge and a hook and a 5 min class on how to use it.