Strike plate damaging brass latch

[jerryo]

I looked all over the place and I couldn't find anything similar so I'll ask here.

I have a front door leading to a block of flats that I own. There is an electromagnetic strike plate and a standard brass latch securing the door, to use the word secure in its loosest terms. Because there is a reasonably high volume of traffic, I have had to replace the latch on several occasions when it gets damaged by repeated slamming against the keep parts. I've asked around but to no avail whether there is a more robust latch available for standard cylinders. Any brilliant ideas out there? I want to put a magnetic lock in place, but it's a bit expensive.

Thanks.

[weilawei]

First, IANAL (I am not a locksmith). This is just what I've found from a few minutes of googling. I'd recommend that you seek professional advice before making any decision.

A quick overview on how these sort of things are rated by ANSI: http://www.sargentlock.com/support/ansi_guide/mortise.html.

It appears that Sargent & Greenleaf sells the 9200 and M9200 high-security locksets designed to address the issue of people beating on your door. Quoting: "Stainless steel 3/4" one-piece anti-friction latchbolt with hardened alloy steel latchbolt rod."

Just one option. Google suggests quite a few more.

[jerryo]

Thanks, weilawei.
See, that's what happens when someone who knows what they're on about uses Google.

[maintenanceguy]

I like electronic strikes a lot but they don't hold up well to abuse. I don't know any that do.

If a heavy use area, My favorite is electronic panic hardware. The panic bar retracts electronically instead of the strike breaking away electronically. These are at least as robust as a regular panic bar. For the maximum durability, If the money is there, I would choose a 3 point locking electronic panic bar. These include vertical rods (inside the door or exposed on the surface) that operate a second and third latch at the top and bottom of the door.

The most common option are mag-locks. A big electromagnet on the door frame literally holds the door shut with 600 or 1200 pounds of magnetic force depending on the model.

The problem with mag locks are (1) they can get out of adjustment. The lock face needs to contact the steel plate you bolt to the door. and (2) They hold at the top of the door so if you have tenants who are abusive, the door can get twisted and bent.

[jerryo]

I like electronic strikes a lot but they don't hold up well to abuse. I don't know any that do.

If a heavy use area, My favorite is electronic panic hardware. The panic bar retracts electronically instead of the strike breaking away electronically. These are at least as robust as a regular panic bar. For the maximum durability, If the money is there, I would choose a 3 point locking electronic panic bar. These include vertical rods (inside the door or exposed on the surface) that operate a second and third latch at the top and bottom of the door.

The most common option are mag-locks. A big electromagnet on the door frame literally holds the door shut with 600 or 1200 pounds of magnetic force depending on the model.

The problem with mag locks are (1) they can get out of adjustment. The lock face needs to contact the steel plate you bolt to the door. and (2) They hold at the top of the door so if you have tenants who are abusive, the door can get twisted and bent.

Good points, thanks. It's the closing of the door that it the issue though, as the brass slams against the steel plate. I'd love to put a mag-lok there as it would lend itself to the situation, but it's just the cost involved. I thought about the possibility of a shear lock on the side rather than the top, but it's still down to money.

[lunchb0x]

I would be going for a mortice lock like this one but choose a brand that is common to your region. Having the larger bolt and some thing made out of a stronger metal than brass means that it will last longer, also with a mortice lock you can change the function of the lock easily, but being on an apartment I'm guessing that you would want it set up so it is always unlocked on the inside to meet fire regulations, and key retracts latch on the outside, this way the building can never be left unlocked. With a good door closer on the door it should solve your issues.

I do like the idea of Mag locks but this is an expensive way, it will most likely have to be set up to the fire sprinkler panel so in the case of a fire everyone car get out of the building, also it will need a backup battery for it the power goes out, if then the battery goes flat or is damaged the building it left unsecured.
There will also have to be a card reader on the outside to deactivate the Mag lock and an exit button on the inside to get out.

If it was me and depending on the units and if you think that it is worth the hassle I would go for the mortice lock option and also get an electric strike, it can be set to "fail secure" so if it does loose power it stays in the locked position and the the units stay safe, just means that the tenants will have to use the key part of the lock. I would use this strike because it will operate with 25 kilos of pressure on the latch, this is enough for if the door bows and puts pressure on the strike and also for tenants that will lean on the door while trying to open it (this can jam the solenoid and stop it from opening).
You will then need something on the outside to unlock the latch, you can go for something like an RFID tag so all they have to do is swipe a card past a reader to get in, or the other option is a numerical keypad so they can put in a pin number to get in there for eliminating the need for a common area key.

If you think that that option is too expensive then maybe just go the mortice lock and give everyone a key to it, but really if you went for the electric strike option you would still need a key on the lock for in case it looses power.

Hope this helps and gives you a couple of ideas.

[Evan]

It would help people here if you could more specifically describe the type of lock and the manufacturer...

It sounds like your problem is one of using a lesser rated lock on a high traffic commercial door... That problem is being made worse by the door "slamming" -- you may want to adjust the force settings on the door closer so that it closes more gently... It sounds as if right now the door is closing way too hard, especially if you have had to replace this latch on several occasions...

As far as what is a "standard cylinder" where is this door located, are you asking about a mortise cylinder ?

Please provide more information so that a real solution can be offered...

~~ Evan

[Evan]

First, IANAL (I am not a locksmith). This is just what I've found from a few minutes of googling. I'd recommend that you seek professional advice before making any decision.

A quick overview on how these sort of things are rated by ANSI: http://www.sargentlock.com/support/ansi_guide/mortise.html.

It appears that Sargent & Greenleaf sells the 9200 and M9200 high-security locksets designed to address the issue of people beating on your door. Quoting: "Stainless steel 3/4" one-piece anti-friction latchbolt with hardened alloy steel latchbolt rod."

Just one option. Google suggests quite a few more.

@weilawei:

Sargent Lock Co. (a division of Assa-Abloy) is a different company than Sargent & Greenleaf (a division of Stanley Security)...

~~ Evan

[jerryo]

It would help people here if you could more specifically describe the type of lock and the manufacturer...

It sounds like your problem is one of using a lesser rated lock on a high traffic commercial door... That problem is being made worse by the door "slamming" -- you may want to adjust the force settings on the door closer so that it closes more gently... It sounds as if right now the door is closing way too hard, especially if you have had to replace this latch on several occasions...

As far as what is a "standard cylinder" where is this door located, are you asking about a mortise cylinder ?

Please provide more information so that a real solution can be offered...

~~ Evan

By standard, I mean a "reasonable quality" surface mounted Yale-type night latch on a front door, nothing complicated. The door closes quite gently, and is correctly aligned etc so that the two stage closing mechanism operates as it should - i.e. gently at the final closing stage - so I believe it's a matter of two incompatible metals and mechanisms working against each other. It's merely a matter of finding a new alternative altogether, or getting a latch that is a bit more durable as suggested above. It used to be ok for years using the same system, and after several of these years the original brass latch wore out. This is fine, and expected, but the replacements haven't lasted as long as the original, and nothing else has changed. I blame Yale. Maybe they're mining inferior brass or something.

[Evan]

By standard, I mean a "reasonable quality" surface mounted Yale-type night latch on a front door, nothing complicated. The door closes quite gently, and is correctly aligned etc so that the two stage closing mechanism operates as it should - i.e. gently at the final closing stage - so I believe it's a matter of two incompatible metals and mechanisms working against each other. It's merely a matter of finding a new alternative altogether, or getting a latch that is a bit more durable as suggested above. It used to be ok for years using the same system, and after several of these years the original brass latch wore out. This is fine, and expected, but the replacements haven't lasted as long as the original, and nothing else has changed. I blame Yale. Maybe they're mining inferior brass or something.

Nope... Not inferior brass... You are taking a door lock meant to secure a single residence door and putting it into service in an inappropriate use on a high traffic door to a "block of flats"... Depending on how many flats are in this block and how many times people come and go each day that lock meant for use on a single residence gets a LOT of wear...

Based on the usage of the vernacular "block of flats" I am going to assume you are located somewhere in the UK... I have no idea what your local accessibility and life safety codes are over there but here in 99.999% of the US such a rim mounted auxiliary lock would not meet modern egress codes on a multi-unit dwelling...

Personally I would install a rim mounted panic bar type lock on your main entry door (assuming that it swings outwards, you never specified that) which can be mounted to most any sort of door by a competent locksmith... Depending on the door type (which hasn't been very well described either) you could also use a mortise style lock...

Your primary need is to have the door operated by the door release mechanism and be durable... It is just a matter of properly matching the door release mechanism to the proper lock given the application it is used in... The amount of traffic your door is subject to is telling you that at least with the night-latch style rim mounted locks available now, your current scheme is no longer a viable option due to the frequency of lock replacements you have experienced...

~~ Evan

[Squelchtone]

I've had good luck with the HES 9600, if thats the sort of thing that would work for your project

http://www.hesinnovations.com/en/site/hesinnovations/Products-startpage/?groupId=141798&productId=626011

Best,
Squelchtone

[jerryo]

@Evan

Sadly my attempt to post a smiley about the “brass mining” comment failed. It was to be this specimen:

Never mind, I’ll preview the post next time and see that it works as it should.

Thanks to the links above and some more intelligent Googling on my part, I’ve found a more durable latch that should solve the very simple adequate initial query I made, so cheers for your time, but it really wasn't that complicated a problem.

Oh, my risk assessment is fully up to date and approved.

Yep, smileys all in order now.

@Squelchtone: cheers

[mhole]

In the UK outward opening doors are pretty rare, especially since most buildings are older properties converted into flats rather than purpose built modern blocks.

The observation about high traffic on shared entrances is spot on - we usually fit a CISA L9666 or L9667 to upgrade from a generic Yale nightlatch and electric strike. They're more secure and a good deal tougher, though they are a bit noisier for any residents who are right next to the door.

[gswimfrk]

This is kinda funny but... Try installing a high quality grade 1 closer, that way the door will not "Slam" and the door's weight is controlled, so not too much force is exerted on the latch unit when closing the gate.

[jerryo]

This is kinda funny but... Try installing a high quality grade 1 closer, that way the door will not "Slam" and the door's weight is controlled, so not too much force is exerted on the latch unit when closing the gate.

I did that, as I said above: The door closes quite gently, and is correctly aligned etc so that the two stage closing mechanism operates as it should - i.e. gently at the final closing stage - so I believe it's a matter of two incompatible metals and mechanisms working against each other.