What next? suggestions

[cmaltzan]

Hey all,

I'm new to this but I have gotten the hang of picking my kwickset deadbolt and master no. 3 very quickly and want to move on to something harder. I couldn't find a guide for what I should choose though.

Could someone also explain the difference between a high security lock and a non-high security lock for me? It seems like lock companies say just about every lock is high security... but I don't think my master no.3 would fall in that category.

Thanks for the help!

[EddieBro]

I was told about Brinks locks from Walmart by Squelchtone, very cheap. Picked up a deadbolt for $14, and their high security padlock for $6 both have spools nice cheap, security pin practice starters GL

[cmaltzan]

Ah that's perfect. Thanks

Could someone still explain the difference for me between a regular and high security lock though? Is it just a lock that has security pins? Or is there something else I'm missing?

[cmaltzan]

I was told about Brinks locks from Walmart by Squelchtone, very cheap. Picked up a deadbolt for $14, and their high security padlock for $6 both have spools nice cheap, security pin practice starters GL

Do you have a picture of that lock? or have a link to it? I don't want to buy a similar one without security pins. Thanks!

[Squelchtone]

I was told about Brinks locks from Walmart by Squelchtone, very cheap. Picked up a deadbolt for $14, and their high security padlock for $6 both have spools nice cheap, security pin practice starters GL

Do you have a picture of that lock? or have a link to it? I don't want to buy a similar one without security pins. Thanks!

Every Brinks deadbolt and every Brinks padlock at Walmart has security pins. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Brinks-Single-Cylinder-Deadbolt/17126580 But more importantly, just because you picked a Master 3 doesn't necessarily mean you are ready to move up to a lock with spool pins. I think a better understanding of how locks work maybe in good order. I saw you post saying you picked a lock and now you can't pick it so it must mean it is broken. I think there are some posts around here and videos on you tube that will help you understand that this isn't a magical process that you can become an expert in during the course of one week of picking. I have locks that I can pick today, and tomorrow, they don't want to open. Some days we just have it, and some days we don't have it. I recommend much more practice, to the point that you can always open the Master No3 with SPP and by raking, and your other Kwikset deadbolt as well. Then move onto the Brinks deadbolt with spool pins, or onto a Home Depot Schlage (not the Schlage Securekey, you want a normal 5 pin Schlage, make sure it doesn't have a + sign next to the keyway)

Download this Locksport International Guide, it should explain a lot: http://locksport.com/index.php/discover ... l-i-guide/

Watch our member Stainbl's videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Stianbl#p/u/12/Wtl2hmHZCLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... emp-8WD9dY

Check out Deviant Ollam's Powerpoint slides: (if your computer doesn't have Office, you can download OpenOffice for free)
http://deviating.net/lockpicking/slides.html

Watch this video on spool pins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4hoGY3SAtU

Watch ALL 24 videos our friend Schuyler Towne made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVSL0lii ... vS3H0J2SSp


Don't post again until you get through all of that stuff, especially Schuyler's 1-24 video set, that's your homework for the week.

Enjoy,
Squelchtone

[cmaltzan]

Okay, I got through all that and have spent a couple of weeks just practicing as well. I happened to get my hands on a bunch of new locks as well. I'm having trouble with two of them.

One is a gatehouse lock http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k54 ... 33_153.jpg

and the other an American combo lock http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k54 ... 04_717.jpg

I've only picked a kwikset and no3 masterlocks before, I really want to master these. I don't think I can really learn any more from the kwikset and no3, but they are still good confidence boosters. Could anyone tell me how these two locks are different from what I'm used to?

When I pick the gatehouse, I feel like I have gotten all the pins set correctly because the key pins seem to feel nice and loose. So I'm not sure what else I need to do to make it work. I think it's the same problem with the American, but I'm not sure. I did get the gatehouse to open, but only one time, and I think it was luck (haven't gotten it to do that again 2 weeks).

Any advice or information on how these two locks are different than what I'm used to would be very helpful! Thank you!

[keysman]

Every Brinks deadbolt and every Brinks padlock at Walmart has security pins. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Brinks-Single-Cylinder-Deadbolt/17126580 But more importantly, just because you picked a Master 3 doesn't necessarily mean you are ready to move up to a lock with spool pins. I think a better understanding of how locks work maybe in good order. I saw you post saying you picked a lock and now you can't pick it so it must mean it is broken. I think there are some posts around here and videos on you tube that will help you understand that this isn't a magical process that you can become an expert in during the course of one week of picking. I have locks that I can pick today, and tomorrow, they don't want to open. Some days we just have it, and some days we don't have it. I recommend much more practice, to the point that you can always open the Master No3 with SPP and by raking, and your other Kwikset deadbolt as well. Then move onto the Brinks deadbolt with spool pins, or onto a Home Depot Schlage (not the Schlage Securekey, you want a normal 5 pin Schlage, make sure it doesn't have a + sign next to the keyway)

Download this Locksport International Guide, it should explain a lot: http://locksport.com/index.php/discover ... l-i-guide/

Watch our member Stainbl's videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Stianbl#p/u/12/Wtl2hmHZCLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... emp-8WD9dY

Check out Deviant Ollam's Powerpoint slides: (if your computer doesn't have Office, you can download OpenOffice for free)
http://deviating.net/lockpicking/slides.html

Watch this video on spool pins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4hoGY3SAtU

Watch ALL 24 videos our friend Schuyler Towne made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVSL0lii ... vS3H0J2SSp


Don't post again until you get through all of that stuff, especially Schuyler's 1-24 video set, that's your homework for the week.

Enjoy,
Squelchtone

I think this should be a sticky !!! Yeah Squelchtone!!!

[Marbles]

'High security' can be a very relative term. Any lock on the market is going to claim to be high security, it would never sell otherwise.

If you want to see some legitimately high security locks then you'll have to look at some of the European designs. All the main American manufacturers make some pretty mediocre locks in comparison, but they seem to work well enough for now.

The higher the lock security, the more complex the design of the lock is going to be. It might have side bars, side pins, telescoping pins, or any number of other complications to make it harder to pick.

There are rating systems that should tell you how intense the level of security for any given lock would be, but those ratings are somewhat disputable since they often don't take into account real-world vulnerabilities such as destructive entry. The best way to find out which locks are actually high security and which are just hype is to do research or ask a specialist.

Hope that explains things a bit

[cmaltzan]

Yes, that does help. I think my last post about the gate house and the american lock got passed over though. Does anyone have any advice about that?

[cmaltzan]

Regarding my last post... not sure what happened, for some reason it didn't post properly. Here it is again though:

Okay, I got through all that and have spent a couple of weeks just practicing as well. I happened to get my hands on a bunch of new locks as well. I'm having trouble with two of them.

One is a gatehouse lock http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k54 ... 33_153.jpg

and the other an American combo lock http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k54 ... 04_717.jpg

I've only picked a kwikset and no3 masterlocks before, I really want to master these. I don't think I can really learn any more from the kwikset and no3, but they are still good confidence boosters. Could anyone tell me how these two locks are different from what I'm used to?

When I pick the gatehouse, I feel like I have gotten all the pins set correctly because the key pins seem to feel nice and loose. So I'm not sure what else I need to do to make it work. I think it's the same problem with the American, but I'm not sure. I did get the gatehouse to open, but only one time, and I think it was luck (haven't gotten it to do that again 2 weeks).

Any advice or information on how these two locks are different than what I'm used to would be very helpful! Thank you!

[cmaltzan]

If those last links didn't work for you, these should be better:

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k54 ... 33_153.jpg

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k54 ... 04_717.jpg

[keysman]

Could someone still explain the difference for me between a regular and high security lock though? Is it just a lock that has security pins? Or is there something else I'm missing?

try here: http://lockwiki.com/index.php/UL_437
While it can be argued Ul 437 has flaws..it is still a good standard. Most if not all " true high security locks" meet that standard.

[chaos4zap]

It has been my experience that the security ratings have more to do with the physical security than it's vulnerability to picking. They will also use categories such as "commercial grade" or "contractor" grade. I'm talking mostly about padlocks here. The master lock "contractor grade" locks I have are built much better, the tolerances are better and they have spool pins. The brink's "max security" lock that say's "Commercial" on the front of it doesn't seem to be much different than any of the other pad's I have from Brinks (except for the size of it) It has a couple of spool pins and one is tricky because you have to reach around the pin in front of it that sets very low, but I think that is more a coincidence in the biting on this particular lock. Before I ramble on too much, I'll just agree that these self-proclaimed "security" grades in different locks seem to be relative to the manufacturer of the lock and the difference in difficulty ranges from negligible to "this one is a little tougher" This all depends on where your at, of course. If you're going from a Master Lock # 3 straight to any brinks lock, the difference is bound to be dramatic and frustrating.

[Evan]

It has been my experience that the security ratings have more to do with the physical security than it's vulnerability to picking. They will also use categories such as "commercial grade" or "contractor" grade. I'm talking mostly about padlocks here. The master lock "contractor grade" locks I have are built much better, the tolerances are better and they have spool pins. The brink's "max security" lock that say's "Commercial" on the front of it doesn't seem to be much different than any of the other pad's I have from Brinks (except for the size of it) It has a couple of spool pins and one is tricky because you have to reach around the pin in front of it that sets very low, but I think that is more a coincidence in the biting on this particular lock. Before I ramble on too much, I'll just agree that these self-proclaimed "security" grades in different locks seem to be relative to the manufacturer of the lock and the difference in difficulty ranges from negligible to "this one is a little tougher" This all depends on where your at, of course. If you're going from a Master Lock # 3 straight to any brinks lock, the difference is bound to be dramatic and frustrating.

@chaos4zap:

The "Grade" of a lock has little to do with its "security" as those are different terms... There is a set of ANSI/BMHA standards as to the "Grade" of a lock, with residential locks being Grade 3, the lowest grade, and heavy duty severe use commercial locks being Grade 1...

A "contractor grade" lock may sometimes be a Grade 2 but not always, that is why it looked much beefier than a normal residential lock set...

"Security" is a relative term, there are standards known as UL-437 which govern "high security locks" but the UL-437 designation is not graded, i.e. a lock cylinder either meets the standards and is "UL-437 approved" or doesn't meet them and is rejected from being listed... It is essentially a pass or fail course, no "relative" or normalized scores are issued...

While there are people here with opinions on which locks are "more secure" than others, all they are actually tested for by Underwriter's Laboratories is that they meet OR exceed the requirements in minutes for resisting various methods of attack...

~~ Evan

[chaos4zap]

Thanks for the clarification Evan, Good to know that a solid "Plan B'" may include lock picking for UL. I'm sure they have automated means for testing most of the destructive means of entry, but there has to be someone there with a trusty set of pick for that portion, no?